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| Joe Vitus |
 Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:16 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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billyweeds wrote: Funny how two stories so similar could be so different in quality. DI (whether or not you love Stanwyck and MacMurray) is so much better than Postman it is really weird. Many posit that it was the MGM studio attitude that ruined the original Postman, but how does that account for the almost equally inept Nicholson-Lange remake?
I was thinking much the same thing. Maybe because it takes so long for them to get around to the murder in Postman, and what makes these stories interesting is watching two desperate animals clawing at each other when they are trapped together by a secret?
I started the novel once, but didn't get far. I liked how slatternly Cora seemed in the book, and they got to the action much quicker, but I have to be in the right mood for noir and I wasn't so I didn't finish it. Never read Double Indemnity at all. The only Cain novel I ever finished was Mildred Pierce, back when I was in college. Not bad. Soap opera written in tough guy prose, but not bad. Never saw the miniseries. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:58 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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Location: Black Hills
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SPOILERS FOR "PRISONERS"
knox wrote: [bringing "Prisoners" over here...] Can't decide if I like Jake G. in this role, or as Graysmith in "Zodiac," more. Both are nicely layered and carry similar weights of obsession and relentlessness - maybe it's "apples and oranges" to compare a completely fictitious character with a "true life" one. Jake G. has an amazing way with world-weariness - it's something in those Scandinavian eyes - in both movies.
The ethical questions raised by "Prisoners" stayed with me long after seeing it - the retarded boy does know something, did have a connection to what was going on, but simply was unable to articulate anything useful - is Hugh Jackman, "Dover," a monster not to see this (as his friend, Terrence Howard, so clearly does)? Or just emotionally unstable and raging, pushed to madness, a kind of victim himself?
Agree with Weeds (over in "Current") that Melissa Leo was the weak link. She certainly had a hard row to hoe. I mean, it's not easy to say stuff like "We are at war with God" and hit all the right notes of despair, loss, sociopathy, etc.
As for Hugh Jackman, honestly, I didn't think the actor had it in him. A surprising turn from him.
Poor Paul Dano....clubbed to death by Daniel Day-Lewis, beaten to pulp and scalded by Hugh Jackman.
I was also aware of the carryovers from "Zodiac" in Jake G's performance, though I think his Robt. Graysmith was a much stronger one (and certainly had far more scope to explore the nature of obsession).
As an exploration of moral breakdown, I agree, it stayed with me and I did find myself playing out a different scenario - what would have happened if Jackman had calmed himself enough to call off his abduction? Would law enforcement's attention to that family have faded away? Or would other clues have emerged, as the aunt could grow careless when the police spotlight goes away?
Another moral question is what has Jackman done to himself, as a father and as a man, by descending into rage and brutality? He will doubtless be imprisoned for most of his daughter's childhood, so she will not have a father at home. He has done terrible harm to an innocent and vulnerable person, but he has also restored that person to his original family - or would that have played out anyway?
Remember that the one of the little girls escapes....but her escape may only have happened because the aunt was spooked enough to move the girls from one place to another. And that girl tells Jackman, "You were there." Again, many forks in the road. Fascinating film. |
Last edited by bartist on Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| Syd |
| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:29 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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| I watched The Goonies last night. Can't say much because my brain cells are still paralyzed. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:44 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| bart--Your post should have a spoiler alert. |
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| whiskeypriest |
| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:04 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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| So I just watched about half an hour of The Help. But I realized two things: 1. It was hopelessly infected with the Glory Syndrome, an unfortunate illness in which black stories can only be told palatably to white audiences by making them about white people; so just as Glory was about the courageous white officers who risked their careers and eventually their lives to show that African Americans can stop bullets as well as white people, and Hurricane was about the brave white family who secured the freedom of a wrongly imprisoned black man (Poor Denzel Washington featured in a lot of these in the early days), The Help was going to be about a brave white woman battling social, societal and legal prejudice to bring a story to print, and coincidentally provide a voice for African American maids. And 2., it was going to violate the Stingo rule, which holds that no movie should give a fully grown character a stupid and nonsensical nickname for no discernible reason. So when I realized they were going to continue to call the main character "Skeeter" I decided I had no need to watch further. Did I miss anything? |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:44 pm |
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Joined: 12 May 2004
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whiskeypriest wrote: So I just watched about half an hour of The Help. But I realized two things: 1. It was hopelessly infected with the Glory Syndrome, an unfortunate illness in which black stories can only be told palatably to white audiences by making them about white people; so just as Glory was about the courageous white officers who risked their careers and eventually their lives to show that African Americans can stop bullets as well as white people, and Hurricane was about the brave white family who secured the freedom of a wrongly imprisoned black man (Poor Denzel Washington featured in a lot of these in the early days), The Help was going to be about a brave white woman battling social, societal and legal prejudice to bring a story to print, and coincidentally provide a voice for African American maids. And 2., it was going to violate the Stingo rule, which holds that no movie should give a fully grown character a stupid and nonsensical nickname for no discernible reason. So when I realized they were going to continue to call the main character "Skeeter" I decided I had no need to watch further. Did I miss anything?
Yeah, you missed a great film. Waving a PC flag at the story because it featured one courageous white character is a thin complaint. White folks were anything but heroes; mostly they were foils for the working-class blacks to show how racist and ignorant white people were in the South. Not exactly grist for Caucasian-centric audiences. What kind of relationships would you have expected to see in pre-civil rights Alabama? In that era, a black woman would've needed help from a white person to escape the pathologies of prejudice, just like black soldiers would've needed help from a white officer a century earlier. That was life as a victimized minority.
You may as well crap on Schindler's List for showing how Jews needed help from a German. |
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| whiskeypriest |
| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:23 pm |
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No movie with a character named "Skeeter" will ever be good.
There are Holocaust movies that do the same thing - use non-Jews to tell the story of Jews. Schindler's List is not one of them because Schindler's List was about Schindler, in a way Glory syndrome movies are not about their white characters. |
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I ask you, Velvel, as a rational man, which of us is possessed? |
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| whiskeypriest |
| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:57 pm |
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Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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| And no one in Schindler's List was named "Skeeter". |
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I ask you, Velvel, as a rational man, which of us is possessed? |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:09 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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whiskeypriest wrote: And no one in Schindler's List was named "Skeeter".
Ben Kingsley's character was named Skeeter. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:38 pm |
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Location: Houston
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| LOL |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:15 pm |
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Location: Black Hills
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Quote: You may as well crap on Schindler's List for showing how Jews needed help from a German.
Yep. Watch the rest, Wpriest, but mind the skeeters. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:50 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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Dorris Dorrie's Cherry Blossoms (2008) is basically an homage to Ozu's Tokyo Story for the first half and then becomes a culture clash and personal journey of discovery.
An elderly German couple go to Berlin to visit two of their children who are selfish and don't make much time for them, and complain about having to deal with their parents. The only one who treats them kindly and makes time for them is their daughter's lesbian girlfriend (skin to the daughter-in-law on Tokyo Story). Disappointed with their kids, the parents leave and vacation near the Baltic Sea where the wife suddenly dies.
The father realizes he didn't really understand his wife's dreams and desires. And he decides to visit their other son in Tokyo, where his wife always wanted to go. This son is also busy/selfish/jerky. The father largely alone and lonely in Tokyo -- embarks on his own Tokyo Story when he meets a young girl who is a street performer in the dance style his wife was interested in. They form a relationship. And the father haltingly lives out his wife's dream. I liked both of these actors and their interaction. Sort of romanticizing "the other," Japanese are portrayed as steeped in tradition and knowing how to behave naturally, while the Germans are hard-working drudges who can't even relate to their own family members.
There are some nice moments, an unhurried pace and some interesting symbolism. I liked the second half better -- the culture clash, odd pairing, and personal journey -- rather than the jerky kids treating their parents poorly in the first half. There seems to be something about the theme which makes this and Tokyo Story and Make Way for Tomorrow all rather unsubtle in their portrayals of children acting poorly to their aging parents. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:29 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Memories of Murder is an excellent South Korean drama about three policemen, two rural, one from Seoul, on the track of a serial killer who, historically was never caught, and the effects the frustrations the investigation has on them. The rural cops, coming up with a suspect, use torture and intimidation to get a confession out of a suspect the city cop knows couldn't have done it. But what happens when the city cop finds a suspect he thinks did it but can't come up with the evidence he needs? Is he so above taking suspects?
The story has some aspects resembling Zodiac (which it preceded) and The Onion Field, but was directed and co-written by Bong Joon-ho, who would go on to direct The Host and Mother. It sometimes has off-the-wall humor, even a little slapstick, but even much of that is grim. There are tantalizing patterns that vanish with the next murder. There is an amazing scene where the detectives know a murder is about to take place, but the cops they need to assist them are all occupied suppressing political dissenters, and the detectives know that there is almost certainly going to be another victim in a few minutes and they almost certainly can't do a thing to stop it.
The movie has an epilogue that is beautifully filmed and haunting.
The movie is based on the actual case of South Korea's first known serial killer. His body count is estimated at ten. (9 of 10) |
Last edited by Syd on Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:26 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Closely Watched Trains is the story of a Czech boy's coming of age. He's in the fourth generation of men who have made careers out of finding means of living that entailed a minimum of labor. Young Milos's chosen profession is assistant dispatcher at a railroad station. This seems to entail sitting aroung until a train comes by, greeting it, staring at comely women, and frustrated lust for a sexy and willing female conductor. The train station also has a lead dispatcher who's into seduction of any comely woman who comes by (though not of the conductor about whom he's giving the kid romantic advice). Finally, there's the station manager, who's trying to restore order out of chaos, and a pretty telegraph worker who creates a little chaos in her own right.
This is all taking place in Czechoslovakia in the winter of 1944-5. There's a funny scene in which a Czech collaborator shows us the favorable military situation with all the strategic German retreats which are all part of a master plan to lure in the Americans and Russians so the Germans can surround and destroy them.
Although the film isn't very dark, we get one scene in which the workers describe one train full of half-dead cattle and another carrying starving sheep, and we are clearly to think of the human victims that were similarly transported.
The film was made in 1967 during a period of political thawing in Communist Czechoslovakia. This resulted the next year in Alexander Dubcek becoming First Secretary of the Communist Party, and a period of political reform known as the Prague Spring, which lasted until the Soviet tanks moved in that August. I don't think this film could have been made two years later. As it was, it won the Academy Award for best foreign language film a few months before the tanks rolled in. It's a good film that may well have deserved its award, nicely acted, earthy, often funny, and worth watching even now. (8 of 10) |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:15 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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I liked the novella better than the film, even though the writer Bohumil Hrabal also did the screenplay and collaborated closely with director Jiri Menzel on the film. I think the combination of farce, whimsy and serious themes of life and death is hard to pull off in a film. I liked Menzel's Larks on a String better, which came at the end of the Prague Spring so was banned and not released until 1990 after the commies were swept into the historic dustbin.
A very different Czech New Wave film you might like is Marketa Lazarova, about the closest you can gte to the mindset and brutality of the Middle Ages without time travel. |
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