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| marantzo |
 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:56 pm |
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Marj wrote: marantzo wrote: A good idea for a forum. Favourite Music Movies, Broadway Musicals, Jazz, Rock, Classical, Biographies etc.
That was what the Theater Forum was intended to be sans biographies and rock, since there already is a rock forum. But as soon as Lorne named it "Theater" it became just that - the Theater Forum.
Yeah, but I'm referring to favourite movies with music themes. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:34 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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marantzo wrote: Marj wrote: marantzo wrote: A good idea for a forum. Favourite Music Movies, Broadway Musicals, Jazz, Rock, Classical, Biographies etc.
That was what the Theater Forum was intended to be sans biographies and rock, since there already is a rock forum. But as soon as Lorne named it "Theater" it became just that - the Theater Forum.
Yeah, but I'm referring to favourite movies with music themes.
Well then, that too!! |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:43 am |
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Finished the David Lean Oliver Twist, then looked up the plot of the actual novel. There were some changes, most of which were an improvement, since Dickens tended to rely a lot on implausible coincidences. He seems to have improved by the time of Great Expectations. "Oliver Twist" was his second novel and London would have to have about 200 people for the original plot to work. The coincidences are considerably reduced here. For instance, in the novel, Claypole is sent by Fagin to spy on Nancy. Here, it's the Artful Dodger, which means we don't have to have Claypole go to London and just happen to fall into Fagin's gang. It makes much more sense to have the Dodger do this. Anthony Newley is quite good as the Dodger, but I wonder how inconspicuous he could be with that big top hat.
Fagin's an antisemitic caricature, but Guinness and the makeup artists make it work anyway. I think it's a sadness around Fagin's eyes that does it. didn't get any sort of a pedophile air around the character. The scene where Fagin is trapped toward the end is very effective.
Reducing the story to a two hour movie requires a lot of pruning, mostly well done. One thing that gets sacrificed is Oliver's time in the workhouse, which seems oddly truncated compared with Oliver's time with the undertaker (nicely done) and with Fagin and Mr. Brownlow, which is the meat of the story here.
Oliver Twist has a big problem because Oliver is mostly a passive character. Even his rescue toward the end depends on Nancy's sacrifice, Brownlow's dedication and Sykes' desperation. Sykes's dog has more to do with Oliver's rescue than Oliver himself.
I shouldn't pick on the movie that much; it's still quite a good movie. I've seen other adaptations, including Oliver and Company, where Oliver is a cat. Not a bad movie, but easily forgotten. This one doesn't sugarcoat the story, and is probably the best. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:57 am |
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| Truth be told, I'm not a Dickens fan (did love David Copperfield, though), so I've not problem believing the changes are improvements. I'd never thought about it before, but you're right, Oliver is a very passive character. Which in terms of the social protest of the novel in its time might have been a good idea: it made people feel reform had to be made to save helpless kids who cannot control their fate. But now when the novel is simply entertainment might hamper one's connection to/interest in the title character. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:56 pm |
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| I love the 1946 adaptation of Great Expectations, which apparently also improves in adaptation. I haven't read much Dickens at all. Especially, after trying, to read, A Tale of Two Cities, and being driven nuts, by Dickens', overuse, of commas. |
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Rocky Laocoon foretold of Troy's doom, only to find snaky water. They pulled him in and Rocky can't swim. Now Rocky wishes he were an otter! |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:19 pm |
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| I saw Great Expectations at a neighbourhood theatre on na Saturday matinee when I was probably 7 years old. Still remember it being 9 cents for a ticket. I loved it and fell madly in love with Jean Simmons at the same time. Probably David Lean's best picture. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:26 pm |
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I don't remember the commas, Syd, but do remember how impossible the book was to read.
Also agree about the 1946 version of Great Expectations. This film worked on so many levels. |
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| whiskeypriest |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:27 pm |
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marantzo wrote: Marj wrote: marantzo wrote: A good idea for a forum. Favourite Music Movies, Broadway Musicals, Jazz, Rock, Classical, Biographies etc.
That was what the Theater Forum was intended to be sans biographies and rock, since there already is a rock forum. But as soon as Lorne named it "Theater" it became just that - the Theater Forum.
Yeah, but I'm referring to favourite movies with music themes. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:25 pm |
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| Hey Mr. Coen-lover, Marj, Billy and I feel your pain. It's called the Theater forum. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:10 am |
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Shouldn't that be Messrs. Coen?  |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:29 am |
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| When I was about 12, I saw a production of "Tale of Two Cities" on TV and fell madly in love with Sydney Carton. (I wasn't at the age yet when I knew actors' names, and it took me many years to find out who played the role, though I finally tracked down the production on the Internet and learned it was James Donald, who was also in "The Great Escape" and "The Vikings," two of my all-time favorite films.) We had a complete collection of Dickens' works (my grandfather had been an admirer) and I read "A Tale of Two Cities," and still remember how frustrating it was to find Sydney in the midst of all the verbiage and irritating people and French Revolution history. Reading "The Scarlet Pimpernel" was a lot easier--loved that movie too, and also had a crush on Sir Percy. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:58 am |
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Quote: No, see, you'll get a forum you are passionate about, you'll pour your heart and soul into thoughtful, intelligent posts on the topic, and everyone will ignore those comments and you'll be soul crushed and despondent. Trust me on this.
I don't suppose it is much consolation that one person (me) read your essays and found them interesting. If this were rendered in a film, you would be speaking in an auditorium, and the reverse shot would show empty seats except for me, front and center, played by John Turturro, staring glassily ahead and scribbling in a small notebook. At some point, he would raise his hand to pose a question, and you would stop and say, "Yes?" He would look around uncertainly, and finally croak "Me?" |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:05 pm |
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| Well, I'd be sitting in the back row behind a column. (I'd be played by Cate Blanchett.) |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:26 pm |
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marantzo wrote: Shouldn't that be Messrs. Coen?
Nope. Not when you take into account the different spellings. Either way, Joe is exactly right. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:47 pm |
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Location: Houston
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| One lover of the Coens created a forum. Thus "Mr. Coen Lover." At any rate, those of us who pushed for a Theater forum appreciate Whiskey's Icarus-like experience. |
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