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Joe Vitus
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:35 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Apropos of your post:

The reflexive call for fewer liberties
By Glenn Greenwald

http://www.salon.com/news/gabrielle_giffords/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/01/12/galston

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Syd
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12887 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Happy Birthday Dolores

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marantzo
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:48 pm Reply with quote
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Befade wrote:
I've changed my mind. I think I like David Brook's slant on Tucson more than Keith Olbermann's. I think Sarah Pallin is repulsive and stupid and totally insensitive (blood libel) but I don't think she's respoonsible for the unravelling of a mentally ill man.

I think she's responsible for using incendiary invective......along with alot of others on the right......and I think the climate needs to change.......I don't buy that it's just good, old American free speech.

I think the issues here are: how this country deals with the mentally ill. (Did you know there is a hot line to call in AZ if you suspect someone is mentally ill? In this case noone did.) And how this country needs to pull back on permissive gun laws. Watch Rachel Maddow talk about how there are plastic guns banned by congress.......except Dick Cheney wanted them available.


We are definitely on the same page here, Betsy.

One thing that always comes up and is very troubling is that mentally ill people who have dangerous conditions but have drugs that eliminate the disease's effect, are often released into the general population where they must take their medication. Well there are many murders committed by these unfortunate souls because they stopped taking their medication. Is it that hard to monitor?
Joe Vitus
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Such a small subset of the mentally ill population is dangerous that concentrating on this aspect isn't much more helpful than blaming this on conservative ideology.

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marantzo
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:29 pm Reply with quote
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Joe Vitus wrote:
Such a small subset of the mentally ill population is dangerous that concentrating on this aspect isn't much more helpful than blaming this on conservative ideology.


Joe, I'm talking about the mentally ill who have been in custody already because of some violet act and have been released with restrictions after a long spell in a closed psychiatric facility.
carrobin
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:51 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
Apparently the drugs that keep a mentally ill person "normal" also drain him or her of the enjoyment of life. So they tend to convince themselves that they can do without the medication, and then go off the rails again.

It's true that very few mentally ill people are violent. But one can kill a lot of other people--especially with an automatic weapon.
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Befade
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:55 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3784 Location: AZ
Gary.........you're right. It's a problem to get some mentally ill people to take meds........specifically the bipolar and schizophrenic populations. If their untreated mental sufferings could lead to violence it seems obvious that there should be a workable restriction to prevent gun purchase.

Quote:
I can't be the one to decide if someone else lives or dies. Any gun is a formidable weapon that gives you the power to make that decision


Bart........I'm on the same page with you. I intuit that a gun speaks to the owner and says "Here I am, grab me, use me." I taught a student who when 16 went out after midnight to egg cars with his friends. Just his luck that one driver of an egged car had a gun within easy reach. 16 yr. old dead.

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jeremy
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:13 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
As a society, we made a decision not to lock mentally people up in institutions. Generally, this was done for noble reasons, but not enough og the resulting cost savings were not channeled into the necessary support services. To a large extent, families or the 'community' were left to pick up the slack. Unfortunately, and obviously, many mentally ill people do not have strong family connections or social networks, or they become quickly frayed. The phrase 'care in the community' is often a misnomer for 'left to fend for themselves'. In the UK, it is not a rare event for a schizophrenic, say, to come off their medication and go on some sort of rampage. Fortunately, these incidents do not normally involve hard-to-obtain guns.


Last edited by jeremy on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Befade
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:34 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3784 Location: AZ
A strong family connection can be totally ineffective if the person shows no interest in taking meds.

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sioux
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:05 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 802 Location: philly burbs
hello, all old time third eyers and new ones, too.

I'm one of the oldsters who had to move on due to other time constraints, but I was a part of the original blanches, and I was just going through some old papers and I realized I had all of the nominees and winners from the first time, albeit in the form of nytimes posts. I was about to throw it all away and then I wondered for a minute if anyone else had archived it. we seem to be a community of anal retentive archivists, but before this stuff goes to recycling...does someone have this? is there someone keeping track of the Blanches? I'll check back here for a week to see if anyone cares.

peace,
sioux
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sioux
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:17 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 802 Location: philly burbs
and when I checked to see this posted I realized I interrupted a serious thread. I couldn't post in the blanche forum.

But, just so you know, I now work for a small nonprofit that advocates for people with mental illness. We have recently worked harder to connect with people who, because of their mental illness, have become involved in the justice system. What has been said a lot lately is true - the overwhelming majority of people who have mental illness, including schizophrenia, do not commit violent crimes. The answer is not putting people who have mental illnesses into institutions. However, the answer is, providing mental health care to people who have mental illness. I could give you a treatise, based on my own personal experience, on how insurance companies actively avoid treating chronic mental illnesses like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

I don't even have to get into my views about gun control to address this issue....
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:17 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
You're a sight for sore eyes, Sioux. I hope life is wonderful for you and you're enjoying Philly or wherever you reside now. Nope I don't want the historic memorabilia, but an occasional e-mail would be nice. Smile

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billyweeds
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:16 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
About Barack Obama, what can one say except that he has fulfilled every expectation I ever had of him. His speech last night in Tucson takes its place with the greatest healing moments in American history. Not quite the Gettysburg Address--what could be?--but close enough. Even Fox News had to agree, and that's quite something.

As for Sarah Palin, I hope she becomes a pariah to people everywhere, a universal symbol of stupidity and insensitivity. She is far worse than a moron; she is a moral leper.

If this be "uncivil discourse," I plead guilty. But Palin deserves it.
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billyweeds
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:48 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
http://www.ny1.com/content/features/today_in_nyc_history/

Good shot of me in The Fantasticks. It closed on January 13, 2002--not 2001 as the voice-over would have it.
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carrobin
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:18 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
Great to hear from you, Sioux!

Jeremy, that's exactly what happened in New York. Mental institutions were closed with the intention of moving the mentally ill to smaller "residential" homes with closer oversight, but of course, the funds were either cut or were never supplied. Result, more homeless on the streets and a rise in the crime statistics. At least NY makes it difficult to get a gun--unless you know somebody and have the money.
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