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| marantzo |
 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:11 pm |
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Concerning this young women/girls discussion; Hollywood for the last few decades has made most of their female stars resemble cheerleaders rather than women. There are exceptions but just watch movies from the 50's and back and the female stars looked like women not girls. I was watching some 50's movies with my son when I was in Atlanta and he liked the actresses. Very familiar to me but strangers to him. I mentioned how they looked like women in the movies then, unlike today. He agreed with me right away (and he doesn't do that often  ). He said something like, "I never noticed that, but they do look like women, not girls." Jane Russell, Marilyn Monroe and Lauren Bacall will do that to you.
Wasn't Bacall just out of her teens when she made To Have and Have Not? She didn't look like some kid. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:19 pm |
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| First release date was October 11, 1944 and she turned 20 that September. I'd guess she was 19 during the actual shooting. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:29 pm |
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Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| Saw Woody Allen's upcoming You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger, and it's one of his best in many years. IMO it's not quite up to Vicky Cristina Barcelona, which for me was his one and only true return to form of the last decade, but it's a very close second. It's a somewhat Chekhovian comedy-drama about a bunch of very foolish people doing very human things around the theme of romance, failed dreams, and divorce. Josh Brolin and Naomi Watts are a married couple with a lot of issues. Watts is the daughter of Anthony Hopkins and Gemma Jones, who have their own issues. There are a whole lot of issues, most of them sad and funny. It's a really fine film. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:36 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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I think that's a notable cultural shift that you see in the movies for both men and women. In the old days, say the 30's to 1967 or so, young people were trying to imitate the older generation and portray themselves as responsible and mature. Dress, manners, style, behavior -- they modeled themselves on the adults. After the counter-culture revolution, more and more the youth culture takes over and you get parents and adults acting increasingly like kids. Trying to be hip, irresponsible, undisciplined, promiscuous, etc.
I think this reflects a definite cultural shift, which is exaggerated in film. I often watch vintage Hollywood films and it's hard to tell how old Cagney or Cary is, as the behavior and style for young people in their 20's and 30's has changed so much. Basically young people wanted to act and imitate adults, but now adults want to act and imitate kids.
I'm dashing this off in a hurry, but next time you watch an old b&w film, notice how hard it is to decipher the age of Spencer Tracy or whoever, because their parents generation is the basic template for their characters. |
Last edited by gromit on Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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| Ghulam |
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:05 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Upstate NY
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The Kids Are All Right will make my list of Five Best Movies of the Year. Funny, touching and believable.
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:25 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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gromit wrote: I'm dashing this off in a hurry, but next time you watch an old b&w film, notice how hard it is to decipher the age of Spencer Tracy or whoever, because their parents generation is the basic template for their characters.
I always marvel at how old people look in old movies. A man of 25 looks 40 by today's standards, and as for a woman of 50--she might as well be in the grave. I always remember how Bette Davis in All About Eve and Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard thought they were over the hill at 40 and 50 respectively. These days they'd be out reveling until dawn.
When Glenn Close played the leading role of Norma Desmond in the Broadway musical of Sunset Boulevard, she upped the ante and made Norma look around 80 in deference to the Swanson performance. When Betty Buckley, always an iconoclast, took over the role, she made Desmond more into today's version of a 50-year-old woman. I thought it was a brave and devastating choice, but Buckley got unfairly criticized in some circles. How dare she play 50 as girlish and post-Freudian rather than as an old crone? |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:07 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6967
Location: Black Hills
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| I think yall are right about the trend towards girlishness. A few actresses buck the trend -- Kate Winslet has looked quite womanly in everything I've seen her in (well, except maybe Heavenly Creatures), full-bodied and with a hint of decadence. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:13 am |
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When men were men and women were women.
What song is that from? I'm thinking Buttons and Bows, but I think that's wrong, |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:44 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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marantzo wrote: When men were men and women were women.
What song is that from? I'm thinking Buttons and Bows, but I think that's wrong,
Close. Buttons and Bows goes:
Give me Eastern trimmin'
Where women are women
With high silk hose
And peek-a-boo clothes
And French perfume
That rocks the room
And you're all mine
In buttons and bows. |
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| knox |
| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:16 am |
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Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 1246
Location: St. Louis
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| And "men are men" can be found in the various regional jokes that go -- "[Place], where men are men, and the cattle are nervous." A joke we Missourians would make about our less civilized neighbors to the west, like Kansas and Nebraska. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:43 am |
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knox wrote: ....our less civilized neighbors to the west, like Kansas and Nebraska.
I don't know, I think cattle are definitely a step up from the chickens that Missourians love so dearly. Also, the need for a step-stool, suggests a great degree of civilization, as there is the element of planning involved -- whereas one may just impulsively snatch a chicken at any time. The answer to the classic question, "why did the chicken cross the road," is, "It saw a Missouri man approaching." |
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He was wise beyond his years, but only by a few days. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:15 pm |
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Location: Houston
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billyweeds wrote: Saw Woody Allen's upcoming You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger, and it's one of his best in many years. IMO it's not quite up to Vicky Cristina Barcelona, which for me was his one and only true return to form of the last decade, but it's a very close second. It's a somewhat Chekhovian comedy-drama about a bunch of very foolish people doing very human things around the theme of romance, failed dreams, and divorce. Josh Brolin and Naomi Watts are a married couple with a lot of issues. Watts is the daughter of Anthony Hopkins and Gemma Jones, who have their own issues. There are a whole lot of issues, most of them sad and funny. It's a really fine film.
Though I didn't love Vicky Christina Barcelona, I'm still thrilled by this post. Look forward to seeing You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:16 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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billyweeds wrote: gromit wrote: I'm dashing this off in a hurry, but next time you watch an old b&w film, notice how hard it is to decipher the age of Spencer Tracy or whoever, because their parents generation is the basic template for their characters.
I always marvel at how old people look in old movies. A man of 25 looks 40 by today's standards, and as for a woman of 50--she might as well be in the grave. I always remember how Bette Davis in All About Eve and Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard thought they were over the hill at 40 and 50 respectively. These days they'd be out reveling until dawn.
Indeed. |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:42 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 3784
Location: AZ
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| I saw I'm Still Here and highly recommend it. Casey Affleck has done a clever job of rendering the controversial and confusing spiral of the person/actor/celebrity Joaquin Phoenix. It's not a pretty picture.......George Clooney would never play a role like this. FOR SURE. But I think Joaquin was brave to expose himself to the camera for ridicule, disgust, and every objection imaginable. This is the movie Marlon Brando never got around to making and probably wasn't creative enough to imagine. It's an unforgettable film that keeps you thinking and thinking..........who was that man............ |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:26 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| It's a fake. |
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