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| marantzo |
 Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:25 am |
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Very interesting stuff from both of you.
How many Americans under the age of 30 (and I'm being generous here) know about any of these American events? In fact, do they even read non-fiction books? |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:11 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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yambu wrote: Syd, I have been enjoying a 27-part lecture in iTunes U, by a Yale professor, covering 1845-77. He mentions that one of the few times in Grant's memoirs that he shows emotion for the fallen is after Antietam.
It wouldn't have been Antietam; Grant was still in the west at the time. There was one battle, possibly during the Overland Campaign, where a bunch of wounded were captured between lines and Grant and the opposing general weren't able to come to an agreement to save the wounded because of a lost message. That may be what the professor was thinking of; it's obvious it still upset Grant twenty years later. He shows considerable emotion over the state of the Confederate army after their surrender at Vicksburg. His terms of surrender at Appomattox were actually pretty compassionate. He'd gotten hold of an intercepted letter from Ewell to the effect that continued fighting was just one step beneath murder, and Grant decided to offer terms to Lee.
I've finished the main text. There is a lengthy appendix which is Grant's summary of the events when he was general-in-chief of the Union Army (that is, the last year of the war). The text has quite a few dispatches between Grant and his generals.
Grant had a sort of obsession with capturing the city of Mobile, Alabama. The forts at the entrance to the bay were captured by David Farragut (damning the torpedoes), and it's not clear to me that it would have been a great advantage to capture the city, too. The city was actually captured at the very end of the war, and Grant deplores the wasted lives because at that point, the battle was totally pointless.
I'd have to check some other miltary memoirs of the time, especially Scott's. It's possible what comes across as coldness is a formalism used in that kind of writing. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:02 am |
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| The battle I was thinking of was Cold Harbor, where there were a lot of wounded between the lines, and Grant was having trouble getting Lee to agree to a truce to save the wounded. |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| whiskeypriest |
| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:15 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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I think Grant was not so much interested in Mobile per se. His idea was, as rephrased by Lincoln, if you cannot skin the cow, at least hold the leg. He wanted pressure applied to the Confederacy all across the south in order to prevent, for instance, rushing troops to Johnston (or Hood) to use against Sherman. The troops that could have threatened Mobile had hared off into Texas, which did not put any pressure on the south at all, since anything West of the Mississippi was irrelevant to the war effort by that time. His regret about the timing of the fall of Mobile was not so much the useless loss of life, as the uselessness in terms of his overall plan.
Grant did not have trouble "getting Lee to agree to a truce," at Cold Harbor - he kept requesting a truce for both sides to tend to their wounded between the lines, and Lee replied that the south had no such wounded to tend to, but if Grant wanted a truce to tend to HIS wounded, he could ask for it. Which Grant did not want to do because in military parlance such a request was tantamount to admitting that Cold Harbor was a defeat - which Grant apparently did not want to do, even come memoir time, and Lee was insisting Grant do, for the same reason.
The real place the war could have ended a year sooner was Petersburg, but Baldy Smith needed to grow a pair, and Hancock, the one General from the Army of the Potomac worth spitting on to put out a fire, was to ill from his Gettysburg wound to take over all command of the assault. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:05 pm |
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Grant was pushing for a campaign to take Mobile as soon as Vicksburg and Port Hudson fell. It made more sense at that time since Farragut hadn't taken the forts, which were more important than the city itself. But Grant got called to Chattanooga, where Rosecrans was beseiged, and Chattanooga was more important than Mobile.
Yeah, Lee was fortunate that the Union gave him time to get his army to Petersburg.
Grant had a glowing opinion of Hancock, which pretty much everyone else does too. |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:13 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 921
Location: New Orleans
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Hi everyone, old and new,
Just sticking my toe back in after being otherwise involved in the real world, and then automatically hiatused because of a change in email address.
Anyway, not doing much that is relevant to other parts of the this forum, but I do continue to read, and occasionally write for the drawer.
Most recently finished: The Art of the Poetic Line by James Longenbach.
The discussion of Grant has been fascinating to read here. Now back to regular programming.
Charles |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:22 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Hi Charles,
Glad to see you made it back.  |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:04 am |
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So nice to see an old poster return. Hi, Charles. It was nice of the Vikings to give the Saints a shot at the Super Bowl.  |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:46 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 921
Location: New Orleans
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Hi friends, Marj and Gary,
Thanks for the welcome,
Super Bowl, éh?
Many people said it would be a cold day you-know-where before the Saints went anywhere. Well, right at the moment it is a cold day down here, very cold.
So, we shall see. heh heh
Fingers crossed for my new team.
Charles |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:22 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: AZ
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| Charles..........Amazing.......I'd been thinking about you lately......but I could not remember your screen name.......just the Tiffany window. Do you live in New Orleans now? |
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Lost in my own private I dunno. |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:13 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: New Orleans
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Long time, no see, Befade,
Yep, the big news of the past year or more has been a complete uprooting of life and lifestyles from the environs of New York City where the polar bears live, down to the environs of New Orleans where they tell me the alligators live. I've been here since October and, yes, the change will be permanent. No way I can now imagine going back up north to live through a winter up there! 
But more to the point, Internet Romance has had its way and I am now happily engaged, looking forward to being married in the coming year.
Who? Who, you ask!
Why, mitty of course from here on TEFF, as well as a number of other book spots around the Web where, together, we have been traipsing the light fantastic. We finally realized it was meant to be, and we have been happy ever since. Some people down here call us That Couple.  |
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| mitty |
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:22 pm |
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Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Location: Way Down Yonder.......
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:33 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Talk about news! I am so happy for you both!! |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:42 pm |
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You look great. The couple.
New York to New Orleans. Good you stuck to the new places. Of course it's not much of a move in the name of romance, I went from Winnipeg, Canada to Medellin, Colombia. Don't have to endure the winters in Winnipeg anymore (New York winters...big deal), winters in Medellin and summers in the Peg. Best of both worlds.
Congratulations to you both. |
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| mitty |
| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:50 pm |
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Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Location: Way Down Yonder.......
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Thanks Marj. Never thought it'd happen to me.
Gary, So, you've bitten the bullet as well. Yays for you too.  |
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