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| Marc |
 Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:11 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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yambu,
my memoirs are serious literature. You actually said nice things about some excerpts from my memoirs that I posted in the book forums. I take my writing very seriously and I work hard at honing the craft. I have since I was a child. I published my first poem when I was 12 years old. It was in our school literary magazine. It won first prize. I used the pseudonym Ragbag after an Ogden Nash poem. I was such a bad little boy (I was expelled twice) that I would have never gotten published if I had used my real name. I tricked the squares.
While I take writing seriously, my life has been filled with many humorous events. I find a lot of humor in sex. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:17 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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yambu,
I've never read Joyce. I've tried. Many people I respect, you and marantz are among them, have steered me toward Joyce, but I find his prose impenetrable. |
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| whiskeypriest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:20 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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Marc wrote: I find a lot of humor in sex. |
_________________
I ask you, Velvel, as a rational man, which of us is possessed? |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:28 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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Quote: Hopefully, they are laughing with you.
good one. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:32 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2148
Location: my computer
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Okay, I wasn't going to post but I'm compelled. See, my Masters thesis topic is based on the need to raise awareness of Cyberbullying, and it doesn't only need to be taught to kids, but to adults, who are some of the biggest culprits. The past few hours I've talked about it, in private, and how it's ironic that my thesis is taking so much of my time that when I do stop in for what I thought would be friendly faces, I encounter the biggest cyberbully there is.
Marc, that's you. You are a bully, but worst, you are a cyberbully. And I've said this today, but my saying it in private is not going to make the difference in this world that I'm hoping to achieve. So a dear friend of mine suggested I come in here, and shout it to the rafters. Telling friends or strangers isn't going to do the job - pointing out the behavior will. We cannot change that which we do not acknowledge; I'm acknowledging the need to change this world, one person at a time, by raising the awareness of what behavior is being exhibited. And while you might make an excellent example for my thesis, Marc, you also need to know how you come across. Cyberbullying is rampant and you're adding to the problem.
The other thing my friend told me to state is what brought me in here yesterday in the first place. See, I'd sent a friend of mine here - we've been talking about movies for a long time, so I decided to try to contribute to bumping up the membership. I got email from my friend saying, "what kind of site IS that? A woman gets called the c-word and no one says anything??" He left without posting and in fact told me he never would. You might say good riddance, but I think it's indicative of a problem. Marc, you say you know all the new registrants, but that won't always be the case. There ARE people who might register who don't know you and hence, wouldn't know you were joking. Rather, they'd see the posts like that, and turn right back around. And no one would blame them. You complained about the insular nature of this place and you're posting, openly and consistently, in the nature of inside jokes and obscure "jokes" and want everyone to read your mind?
So I did mention this to my dear friend (not the one who read and left, but someone else) who suggested I not keep it to myself. Based on that very sage advice, I'm putting it back where it belongs - because if you don't know there's a problem (cyberbullying, turning potential new members away), you can't change it.
Not that I believe you'll change - but a little awareness never hurt anyone. And now that I've made aware those who will bother to read this post, that there was at least one potential new member in here who won't ever join (or recommend it), I'm hoping this will make you all see that the continued sniping and insider interactions is exactly what we'd been trying to eliminate in order to promote Third Eye. Thanks to my friend/adviser, I'm stating it here rather than keeping it to my own inside circle. That's advice I'm glad to take.
And now that really is my last word on that. |
_________________
Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:02 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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Lissa,
Let it go. I did my best to discuss this intelligently. I made a genuine effort to explain what was intended and that my intention was not mean spirited. I think the majority of people here understand that. Including the person whose name was mentioned in the joke.
You are perpetuating the very thing you're railing against.
This is an adult site devoted to the arts. All kinds of things are going to be said that might not sit well with people who don't know us. If a visitor is alienated by one jokey post among the close to 200,000 that are here, then they have a problem. Not us.
We created "Behind The Curtain" so as to shield potential newbies from intimate information, inside jokes, arguments, politically incorrect comments, etc. I was for closing "The Curtain" and hoped that we would still be free to be irreverent and provocative. But, it appears that there is little room for spontaneity in here. The mind police are watching, waiting to pounce. At this point, I feel bullied. And I don't like it.
This is like a fucking Twilight Zone episode. |
Last edited by Marc on Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:31 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:07 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Marc wrote: yambu,
I've never read Joyce. I've tried. Many people I respect, you and marantz are among them, have steered me toward Joyce, but I find his prose impenetrable.
Same here. Except for Dubliners and Portrait of the Artist. But even appreciating those, I didn't finish them. |
_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:11 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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| "Portrait Of The Artist As A Young Man" is the one Joyce book that I managed to read most of. I think Gary gave it to me. |
Last edited by Marc on Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:11 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12890
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| I finished Portrait of the Artist a couple of years ago. I'd been assigned it in high school but couldn't finish it, so it holds the record for the longest it's taken me to read a book. |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:19 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Lissa,
I like you and you like me, so please consider my opinion when I say Marc's use of the word and his respose to your comments about it are not cyber bullying. I think if anything his responses to this discussion are defensive, not offensive. He made a joke and is bothered that someone the joke wasn't made to is taking it both seriously and personally.
I'm sorry your friend got the *wrong* impression about us, but context is everything. It's also worth noting that people like Syd and Lady responded just as you did, and stated their feelings quite clearly. Therefore it isn't a case of people just letting it go.
Marc,
While I disagree with Lissa on this issue, I don't think she's trying to stir up trouble. She's like Gary. And me. Something gets under her skin and she doesn't let go of it immediately.
The two of you both have very strong personalities, and neither of you back down. It would probably make you good internet friends if the two of you didn't disagree on just about everything. Sometimes that's how it goes. |
_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:36 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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Joe, I appreciate your thoughtfulness.
Quote: The two of you both have very strong personalities, and neither of you back down. It would probably make you good internet friends if the two of you didn't disagree on just about everything. Sometimes that's how it goes.
I don't disagree with Lissa on everything. I don't really converse with Lissa. Not because I disagree with her, but because most of what she says is of no interest to me. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:38 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2148
Location: my computer
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Joe - trust me as an expert on the field that Marc's reaction to my post IS cyberbullying. And it isn't that I don't let go of something; the misunderstanding amongst you is that I didn't see it as a joke (nor would an objective visitor - as illustrated). Frankly, had he used any other word, I'd have raised my eyebrows and gone past. It's the usage of the word, something I was under the impression was off limits in this forum. Context IS everything but how is an outsider to know the context of Marc joking about Marj? I have proof positive that it wasn't apparent to at least one person. Back when the whole new members issue came up, the complaint was that the group was so insular, so self-directed, that no one could break into the clique. How is making an inside joke any different?
Marc's attacks on me - thanks Betsy, for mentioning that - ARE cyberbullying. The words he chooses to use and the ways in which he expresses himself when he attacks (and they ARE attacks) are most definitely cyberbullying. One can express an opinion without flaming and Marc flames. And flaming drives people out.
Like I said, I'm now an expert in the field of cyberbullying. I should know its definition and manifestations. And that's only one instance where he's exhibited it, there are others I'm not going to dig for.
I also know how to stop cyberbullies. One clicks the "X". Won't stop the bully but it'll remove the target. |
_________________
Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:49 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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Quote: Joe - trust me as an expert on the field that Marc's reaction to my post IS cyberbullying.
Like I said, I'm now an expert in the field of cyberbullying. I should know its definition and manifestations.
I find the above statement chilling. How do you argue a point with someone as delusion and self-possessed as that?
Lissa, you illustrate the exact reason that I find you unbearable. You don't talk to people, you lecture. You're an expert on everything. The Queen Bee of the cyberworld. Unfortunately, no one but me is willing to call you on it. But, trust me, I'm not the only one who feels this way. You cloak your fascistic tendencies in new age aphorisms. You are the all-knowing, all seeing, grand dame of the new world order. And you're full of shit. |
Last edited by Marc on Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:51 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| I said my piece on both the word and the people. I'm removing myself from the conversation now. |
_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:26 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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Marc wrote: yambu,
I've never read Joyce. I've tried. Many people I respect, you and marantz are among them, have steered me toward Joyce, but I find his prose impenetrable.
The annotations are longer than the text. But for one thing, the notes give you all the references to Odysseus, so you don't have to read that, too.
Basically, it's a straight ahead tale about a day in the life of a man who has lost his son, who eventually meets up with a son who's lost his father. There are seventeen chapters, and the writing style changes at least once in each one.
On a good day I could cover no more than twenty-five pages, nor would I want to. People who know say that's quite enough. Your having been Catholic educated may give you a slight advantage by being able to skip a lot of the notes.
The rewards are like nothing l have ever received from the printed word. Joyce knew everything there was to know about the world's cultural heritage up until that time (1904), and it took him nine years to get it all down. He can triple pun in Hungarian, Sanskrit and Gaelic, for instance.
In the Oxen of the Sun episode alone, the notes say he mimics Tacitus (in English), Medieval Latin Chronicles, Anglo-Saxon rhythmic alliterative prose, Morality plays, Norman-French chivalric tales, Sir Thomas Malory, Maimonodes, Addison and Steele, the Romantics, the MacCaulay essay, Dickens, Ruskin, and American Revivalists.
The next chapter is dreamlike. Leopold Bloom is in the dock, and the stilted, self-important legalese is a scream. Same for doctors when they get going.
The book is loaded with crude anatomical references, but I'd better stop.
Even with the support I have advised, there will be a lot that you won't get. Don't worry about it - you won't remember much of the book, anyway. Just take your time, if you have the time, and enjoy the ride this genius offers you. |
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That was great for you. How was it for me? |
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