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| Joe Vitus |
 Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:25 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Marc wrote: Joe, If Blair Witch Project hadn't been on the receiving end of so much hype, it would have probably suffered less backlash.
I think the phrase "backlash" should be stricken from film criticism. It's an unfair term that early enthusiasts use when they find out a lot of people don't agree with them. I wanted to like Blair Witch. My expectations weren't overblown, since I expected an eeire mood piece, rather than a movie with big set pieces or a lot of activity. I was expecting an inventive use of the "found footage" concept and a nice twist at the end. But the movie was just impossibly bad.
**SPOILERS**
Are we really supposed to buy the guy throwing away the map, or that the other two would recover from this act so quickly? Why choose as the set of the "old place" the witch lived in a clearly contemporary house (that seems to be under contruction)? And the movie simply has no atmosphere.
The only part that works is the early trip into town where they interview locals. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:27 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Betsy, I have walked out of a handful of films in my life. I usually stick it out. But, Bright Star was so inert, so lifeless, so unengaging that even a trip to the bathroom was more dramatic.
Here's a secret between just the two of us.......I walked out of Kurosawa's RAN.
I beg you not to tell anyone. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:51 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9010
Location: Shanghai
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Keep your secrets where they belong .... Facebook.
Appreciated Up.
Quite a good film.
I need to let it sink in.
A couple things threw me.
If Frederickson is a decaying senior, than Muntz has to be at least 20 years older. And if the film is in "real time" than Frederickson was about 6 in say 1936 or so (we have those Ethiopia and other newsreel clues), he would then be 78 in 2008. So Muntz is 98? Maybe there is some anti-aging formula in the South American waters.
It's not really important, as obviously most of the stuff in the film is fantastical, but I do admit to pondering this at idle moments in the film.
The extended silent sequence was remarkable, but I wasn't sure if it was really happening or a dream/fantasy, so I don't think I got the full impact. [need to re-watch]
And when the Doberman starts speaking funny, I thought for sure it was a helium-related joke, but it turns out to be faulty wiring. I was surprised that no one mentioned helium. We see the bird earlier eat a balloon, so I thought the dog did as well.
Yes, small, irrelevant things I thought of while watching the film. I also found it interesting that Russell was Asian, but that wasn't remarked on or made into lame ethnic jokes. He's just a regular (Asian-)American kid.
I didn't realize that Ed Asner was still alive.
He does a great job.
I especially liked the point in the film where the present-day kid becomes more important to Fredrickson than his past mementos. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:27 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2148
Location: my computer
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gromit - your points of contention (albeit small ones) are valid; after all, we are thinking adults. The kids who saw the film - from the smaller ones to teens - never went there. To them (and they were the major target audience) it all worked. However, if Pixar and Dreamworks and Disney are going to make films that they want to appeal on multiple levels (hence more adults taking their kids to movies because they don't have to grit their teeth through the rubbish that is Pokemon), they should expect a film that doesn't leave nagging questions.
My thoughts:
The silent sequence never left me questioning; to me, at least, it was obvious that this was the film's way of propelling us through Carl's and Ellie's life together. Knowing that we were going to spend the majority of the film with Carl as an older man, it just made sense. Should this be information we have to process? No. But because all the trailers, posters, merchandise, and talk of Up revolved around an older man, it made sense that we were seeing a time passage device. For me, it worked - and the full impact rocked me to my core.
I didn't have the questions about the Doberman's voice going wonky...I laughed out loud, somehow knowing what was happening. Or maybe I didn't know. But it didn't matter.
Yes, the age difference between Carl and Muntz should have been a lot more pronounced. But this is fantasy...and they took creative license.
It's a film with lots of teachable morals but it never preaches. I love the Pixar films for their "take what you will" attitude. Some kids walked out talking about all the balloons, others walked out talking about how seniors are so disrespected by youth, in today's society. It was beautiful after-chatter as I made my way from the theater to the lobby. Maybe it's different when you see it on DVD. More to ponder.
Still, glad you got a good impression of it overall. I'd be interested in your second viewing, especially your take on the time passage... |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:26 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9010
Location: Shanghai
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I generally try to go into a movie with as little knowledge of it as possible. I just like to know, whether it's good or not. But sometimes it's useful to know the background. I didn't know it was a film about an an old guy. So I was uncertain a few times whether that sequence was real or imagined. It would have been better to expect an old guy, so that I'd react to that sequence the right way. Maybe I was just over-thinking a children's movie, but ...
I find it sometimes difficult to know whether to watch some extras/intro prior tot he film. I rarely do. But sometimes it would be helpful. I recently watched Costa Gravas's Z, and it would have been better to know going in that it was based closely on a true event. It would have explained some of the pacing and the choices made (that is, they weren't artistic choices, but actual events). |
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Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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| lady wakasa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:35 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5911
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
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I saw the word "silent" associated with the movie "Up" - does this mean I should go?..
Also, skimming the bit that Russell was Asian-American - Wybie in Coraline is mixed-race (black / white), and that's not really remarked on either (and doesn't really come up until you see something at the end I'm trying not to spoil). In face, I doubt if most people who saw Coraline even noticed. |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:37 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 7795
Location: NYC
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"Up" was one of the very few movies I managed to see this summer, and I loved it. The age of the "hero" aviator did puzzle me a little, because it's true, he'd have had to be over 90 (my mother was born in 1920, and he'd have been older than her). But he was a tough old bird and I accepted the concept that he had out-Jack LaLanned Jack LaLanne. I loved the setting--those weird jungle-topped plateaus have fascinated me ever since I heard of them--and the dogs (especially the way the threatening vicious pack would turn and rush after anything resembling a tennis ball). And since I'm in my 60s now, it was fun to see a couple of guys old enough to be my father duelling it out with their canes and walkers. I think I enjoyed it more than a kid would.
Oh yes, and I loved the silent sequence too. No problem believing it was their history. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:43 am |
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Quote: I never walk out of films. I want to see if they improve as they move on.
If a movie really pisses me off because it is bad and insulting my intelligence, I never stay to see if it improves. Sometimes they are not good and just get worse as they go along and when it's over I kick myself for not walking out.
On the other hand, there have been movies that were so dumb and bad that I have to keep watching to see how bad they can get. I'm never disappointed. I get a perverse pleasure in watching scene after scene that outdoes itself in terribleness.  These movies never insult my intelligence because they don't pretend to be anything profound. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:44 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: my computer
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Lady - the "silent" is a misstatement. It might be described as "montage" instead. There is no dialogue, it is all set to music, and in my mind, that montage is truly one of film's greats. Convey a story with no words, and the deepest emotions possible (yes I cried, yes I embarrassed my son) - and all in a movie originally targeted for kids...that's class.
gromit, it shouldn't be seen only as a "kid's film" - there is something for everyone, in Up - after all, the main character is a big kid at heart; adventurer, creative thinker, rebel...and he's practically an octogenarian. It's also a great story, and doesn't preach at kids.
True, I also like going into a film knowing as little as possible; but did the poster art not give you a little hint about the main character? How "cold" were ya?r
Lady W - I have Coraline on DVD and will probably watch it this week. I read the book but want to go into the film cold as to specifics. I'll let you know if anything resonates...along the lines of the non-spoiler you've hinted at. Some details go utterly unnoticed by filmgoers; depends on how analytical you want to be vs how much you just want to experience what's unfolding on the screen. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:51 am |
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Up, is a terrific movie. As soon as they encounter the aviator, the first thing that occurred to me was the discrepancy of their ages also. But then the aviator may have spent much of his time travelling at close to light speed so he would not age very much at all. There, problem solved.  |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:55 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9010
Location: Shanghai
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I didn't see it in a theater, and there were no posters next to my Tv. The dvd cover did have an old man, a kid, a bird and a flying house. Basically all I knew about it was the general flying house idea.
Yes, most animation in the past few decades at least has levels and lessons for adults as well as kids. It's like when kids take their parents to McDonald's, there still needs to be something for the parents to chew on.
The bird seemed more oriented towards kids. But initially I was reminded of the roadrunner cartoons when it zooms by unseen, and later Big Bird when it is a friendly presence. I assume those were intentional reference points. |
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| lady wakasa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:00 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5911
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
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lissa wrote: Lady - the "silent" is a misstatement. It might be described as "montage" instead. There is no dialogue, it is all set to music, and in my mind, that montage is truly one of film's greats. Convey a story with no words, and the deepest emotions possible (yes I cried, yes I embarrassed my son) - and all in a movie originally targeted for kids...that's class.
There's that little silent bit in Talk To Her, which seems really funny at the time but is actually a pretty shocking bit of plot exposition...
Quote: Lady W - I have Coraline on DVD and will probably watch it this week. I read the book but want to go into the film cold as to specifics. I'll let you know if anything resonates...along the lines of the non-spoiler you've hinted at. Some details go utterly unnoticed by filmgoers; depends on how analytical you want to be vs how much you just want to experience what's unfolding on the screen.
I think it's also a matter of social expectations and how they play out walking in to a film, but I'll be interested to see your reaction to it. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:46 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12921
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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Marc wrote: Betsy, I have walked out of a handful of films in my life. I usually stick it out. But, Bright Star was so inert, so lifeless, so unengaging that even a trip to the bathroom was more dramatic.
Here's a secret between just the two of us.......I walked out of Kurosawa's RAN.
I beg you not to tell anyone.
You're fired. |
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| lady wakasa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:55 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5911
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
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Syd wrote: Marc wrote: Betsy, I have walked out of a handful of films in my life. I usually stick it out. But, Bright Star was so inert, so lifeless, so unengaging that even a trip to the bathroom was more dramatic.
Here's a secret between just the two of us.......I walked out of Kurosawa's RAN.
I beg you not to tell anyone.
You're fired.
Yeah, I'd be signing those termination papers, too... |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:24 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: my computer
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| Lady W - I'll definitely post when I've seen Coraline. I've been debating which tv to watch it on, but I think it'd be daft of me not to use the big-screen with the surroundsound in the basement. Just a matter of going down there and settling in one evening. But I have wanted to pop in the DVD for a while now; your teaser has me more curious (and more motivated!). |
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