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gromit |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:34 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9010
Location: Shanghai
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Sure there were popular black musicians and sports figures prior to Jordan and Jackson, in what was considered some sort of entertainer exception to the usual racial brutality. But many of those folks played the chitlin circuits, were recorded on race records, faced segregation, and a few managed to come across as non-threatening (think Nat King Cole dressing like Bing Crosby). None got the fame and money and adulation that Jordan and Jackson received.
The MJ's came around at the right time, in the post-civil rights era, when the culture was starting to change and colorblindness became a possibility, if not exactly a reality. And when serious coin could be made in the entertainment field. Along with the media hype machine which was just kicking into overdrive. All that came together in the 80's/90's to make mega-stars and icons out of black performers, in a way which was not previously possible. |
_________________ Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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billyweeds |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:35 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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Marc--You may be right, but I seriously, seriously doubt it. The Hurt Locker has only opened on nine screens in two cities. Ebert, for instance, hasn't even reviewed it yet since it hasn't opened in Chicago, for cryin' out loud. |
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Marc |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:14 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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billy,
all I know is I can't wait to see it. |
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Marc |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:25 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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Quote: Public Enemies has incidental pleasures (its hi-def video palette is fascinatingly weird), but it’s only Depp’s sense of fun that keeps it from being a period gangster museum piece. After Michael Jackson’s death, I rewatched his video of “Smooth Criminal”—a gangster fantasia with rat-tat-tat hoofing and a touch of Guys and Dolls. It’s madly inventive, genre-bending, at once a study in urban paranoia and a tribute to the artist as outlaw-loner. Public Enemies has none of that originality and passion, and Mann can’t dance.
Edelstein is an idiot. "Mann can't dance". Well, Michael Jackson couldn't direct
major league movies.
"its hi-def video palette is fascinatingly weird". It is much more than that. It is BEAUTIFUL.
"It’s madly inventive, genre-bending"
an apt description of PUBLIC ENEMIES.
I saw PUBLIC ENEMIES in a theater packed with every age, race and sex. The audience was mesmerized through the whole film. No restless squirming, no chatter. For two hours and 23 minutes people pinned to their seats. A rare experience in this day and age. |
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billyweeds |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:30 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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Gonna see Public Enemies this week. Returning to NYC tomorrow and that's one of my first destinations. |
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Joe Vitus |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:31 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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gromit wrote:
The MJ's came around at the right time, in the post-civil rights era, when the culture was starting to change and colorblindness became a possibility, if not exactly a reality. And when serious coin could be made in the entertainment field. Along with the media hype machine which was just kicking into overdrive. All that came together in the 80's/90's to make mega-stars and icons out of black performers, in a way which was not previously possible.
I've just posted something similar to this in the Lobby, but you're exactly right about the "colorblindness" factor. Along with Cosby on television, he reprented a turning point at which one didn't say "oh what a great black talent," but simply "what a great talent" and wanted to be part of it, to emulate it. |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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marantzo |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:53 am |
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Marc wrote: Gary,
Little Richard was a Black groundbreaker who appealed to all races, was androgynous, could dance like a motherfucker and played a mean piano.
I knew I was forgetting a lot of stars, but forgetting Little Richard is unforgivable. He was my favourite in that era. I much preferred him to Chuck Berry. |
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Marj |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:52 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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marantzo wrote: Race wasn't an issue for Johnny Mathis, Harry Belafonte, Stevie Wonder, Frankie Lyman, Bo Diddley, Nat King Cole, Jimmy Hendrix, Sammy Davis Jr. and many others. These performers were idolized by white girls/women and favourites of white boys/men. And this doesn't include the Black groups like The Platters, The Coasters, The Drifters and on and on. All these performers would fill then seats and it certainly wasn't an all Black audience.
Of course the South in those times had officials (and a populous) that would not look kindly on these musician and there are plenty examples of harassment and actual arrests and jail by cops down there, but that nonsense was pretty well extinct by the time that Jackson showed up on the scene.
Besides, Jackson was white. Haven't you noticed?
Gary -- I can't speak for all of the men and groups you mentioned but I certainly know that race was a huge factor for Sammy Davis Jr., Nat King Cole and Harry Belafonte.
Davis was saved from obscurity by Sinatra. Without him he would not have had any career. Belafonte was one of the first Black entertainers to become deeply involved in the movement and Nat King Cole not only was the first Black entertainer to get his own TV show, he stood up and against the industry when it turned its back on Black entertainers. Btw, before his show was canceled he was not allowed to touch a white female on it. The cancellation of his show hurt him deeply.
It's one thing for people to listen to Black entertainers. Even to attend their concerts. But to have them come into ones living room on a weekly basis was too much. |
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gromit |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:02 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9010
Location: Shanghai
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Coraline is a pretty interesting and creative film. I'm not really sure what the buttons mean, if anything, but their is a nice creepiness that builds up in the first half of the film. I also liked the way in which the real world was depicted in drab grays, while the other world was bursting with color. I kind of sensed that the film got a little ahead of itself in terms of any explanation, but it was quite well done in any case.
I'll send this on to some teen/tween nieces and see how they like it. |
_________________ Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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marantzo |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:11 pm |
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Quote: Sammy Davis Jr., Nat King Cole and Harry Belafonte.
Of course I'm well aware of that, but I was speaking about their audience not the general public and I knew many white women (American) who desired Belafonte and would have loved to date him. So this was quite a while ago and they broke barriers, which was my point. I don't see any racial barriers that Jackson broke because they were already gone. As I mentioned, the only big musical influence he had that I can think of was his expansion of the music video form. |
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Earl |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:52 pm |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 2621
Location: Houston
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Away We Go
Please excuse the cliche, since I'm sure many others have already used it, but, despite the title, the movie goes nowhere. Oh, the film crew went to lots of places, no doubt about that. Away We Go is nothing if not a road picture. It also contains competent performances by Maya Rudolph and John Krasinski, both of whom convinced me that they were kind, intelligent people in love with each other. At the movie's end, though, I knew very little about them that I didn't know after the first 15 minutes. All that changed were the many locations. The entire movie felt like a preview for the movie. |
_________________ "I have a suspicion that you are all mad," said Dr. Renard, smiling sociably; "but God forbid that madness should in any way interrupt friendship." |
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Marj |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:02 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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marantzo wrote: Quote: Sammy Davis Jr., Nat King Cole and Harry Belafonte.
Of course I'm well aware of that, but I was speaking about their audience not the general public and I knew many white women (American) who desired Belafonte and would have loved to date him. So this was quite a while ago and they broke barriers, which was my point.
This is true, Gary. I'm glad you made your point clearer. |
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Joe Vitus |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:41 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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I can't look at the title for Away We Go without thinking of Oklahoma! |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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Marj |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:53 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Very good, Joe. Normally I think the same way. I don't know why I missed it this time. |
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Earl |
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:57 pm |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 2621
Location: Houston
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Joe Vitus wrote: I can't look at the title for Away We Go without thinking of Oklahoma!
Different strokes. I thought of Jackie Gleason. |
_________________ "I have a suspicion that you are all mad," said Dr. Renard, smiling sociably; "but God forbid that madness should in any way interrupt friendship." |
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