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Marj
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:43 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
billyweeds wrote:
When you have a couple of hours to spare, look at the scene between Bogart and Dorothy Malone in the bookstore in The Big Sleep and then look at the scene where Kirk Douglas directs Lana Turner in the bookstore scene in The Bad and the Beautiful. If you don't think there's a tie-in, I'll be surprised. Minnelli was riffing on Hawks.


Minnelli riffed on a lot of Hollywood in The Bad and the Beautiful. But great pick-up, Billy. And I love that scene ... in both films!

And Joe, you really ought to see this film. It might be trashy but it's well done trashy. Well, with the exception of Lana Turner. And of course you've got that David Raksin score.

Call it a guilty pleasure or whatever you'd like. It's fun and not to be taken seriously. But knowing you and your curiosity, I wonder how many "riffs" you'll identify.
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billyweeds
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:43 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Marj is dead-on about every single aspect of The Bad and the Beautiful. A guilty pleasure it may be/absolutely is, but it's one I have trouble resisting. Every time it's on I stick around for "just one more scene." The final fadeout is one of the kitschiest but most entertaining I know. The Raksin score is probably his second-best only to Laura, and Lana Turner is just as lousy as ever. But everyone else, from Kirk Douglas to Dick Powell to Oscarwinning Gloria Grahame, is just dandy. It's one of Minnelli's best, and a particular favorite of mine.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:33 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
I wasn't dissing the movie, which has always sounded like fun. Just one which, for some reason, I've never seen.

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Marj
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:48 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Didn't think you were Joe. I figured you'd just never seen it. But now's the time!

It's a fun ride. And everything Billy said is spot on. Now go forth, young man and rent!
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Syd
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:19 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12929 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
The Bad and the Beautiful is a lot of fun, and is easily the best I've seen Kirk Douglas.

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marantzo
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:33 pm Reply with quote
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When I saw The Bad and the Beautiful, I would have been 11 at the time, I remember thinking, "This is a movie that should be heavy drama but doesn't quite make it". I have seen it a number of times since and my opinion hasn't changed.

When I saw it, I had already seen movies like The Asphalt Jungle, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, Where the Sidewalk Ends and Great Expectations so I had what you might call great expectations. I did enjoy it though.
whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:38 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
Moving an off topic discussion:

Quote:
Thanks, whiskey. I agree that Notorious and Shadow of a Doubt are also great movies. There are, in fact, only a handful of Hitchcock movies that are not good.

Just for reference, these would include The Paradine Case, Torn Curtain, and I Confess, but damn few more than that.
The Paradine Case reminds me of the only good line from a bad Norm MacDonald sitcom from a few years back. MacDonald played a former pro hockey player, and some kid kept telling him he sucked as a hockey player. Finally, he told the kid, "Listen, kid. I was a great hoceky player. I only sucked when compared to other great hockey players."

Paradine is not good when compared to the rest of Hitchcock's work, but it is not a bad movie by any means. Of course, that could just be my Alida Valli fixation talking.

The only Hitch I have seen and not liked was Marnie.

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billyweeds
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:54 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Gregory Peck is not the ideal Hitchcock hero any more than Paul Newman is. To be perfect in a Hitchcock film, a guy has to have a quirkier personality than Peck or Newman. Peck was equally dull in Spellbound, another of my non-favorites from Hitch.

Marnie was, yes, a definitely not-good Hitchcock film, but I found its sexual obsessiveness somewhat interesting.

The relationships between Barbara Harris/Bruce Dern and Karen Black/William Devane made Family Plot a lot better than it might have been. Hitchcock directed those actors remarkably well.
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gromit
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:19 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9016 Location: Shanghai
Yeah, Peck doesn't fit well in Hitchcock films.

The Lodger
is one of my favorite Hitchcocks.

Sticking with the early British films, Champagne is fairly weak, with some of the directorial flourishes being kind of hammy, and a sloppy script, mediocre comedy, etc.

I don't think I made it through Juno and the Paycock.

Under Capricorn is kind of a weird period costume drama. A bit of a yawner.

Waltzes from Vienna is supposed to be a dud, but I've never partaken.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
billyweeds wrote:
Gregory Peck is not the ideal Hitchcock hero any more than Paul Newman is. To be perfect in a Hitchcock film, a guy has to have a quirkier personality than Peck or Newman. Peck was equally dull in Spellbound, another of my non-favorites from Hitch.

Marnie was, yes, a definitely not-good Hitchcock film, but I found its sexual obsessiveness somewhat interesting.

The relationships between Barbara Harris/Bruce Dern and Karen Black/William Devane made Family Plot a lot better than it might have been. Hitchcock directed those actors remarkably well.
Well, I agree about Peck.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
gromit wrote:
Yeah, Peck doesn't fit well in Hitchcock films.

The Lodger
is one of my favorite Hitchcocks.

Sticking with the early British films, Champagne is fairly weak, with some of the directorial flourishes being kind of hammy, and a sloppy script, mediocre comedy, etc.

I don't think I made it through Juno and the Paycock.

Under Capricorn is kind of a weird period costume drama. A bit of a yawner.

Waltzes from Vienna is supposed to be a dud, but I've never partaken.
I bought a six DVD set of early Hitchcock from the $5 bin at WalMart a few weeks ago, but haven't had the time to work through much of it, except the great 39 Steps.

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gromit
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:32 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9016 Location: Shanghai
Whatcha got?

The Lodger is impressive.
Blackmail is very good, and something BDP would like.
The Ring is interesting and well done.
I'm not sure why, but I get along with Rich and Strange pretty well, despite its silliness and the whiny hubby (maybe it's the alternate title)
Number 17 seems like the template for an Abbott & Costello movie, but it's reasonably fun.

Don't think I've seen Manxman, Murder, or a few others.

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billyweeds
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:36 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Murder is good, and Young and Innocent and the original The Man Who Knew Too Much are excellent.
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gromit
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:49 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9016 Location: Shanghai
Yes, Young and Innocent is quite good.
I just wish I could remember which title goes with which film, instead of having to look so many up.

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Marc
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:00 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 8424
Is everybody ready to play America's favorite new pastime:

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE ME?

Austin's beautifully restored grand cinema, The Paramount, is screening a double bill tonight of FARGO and THE BIG LEBOWSKI. Now, I've seen both films a number of times on DVD, but I haven't seen them on the BIG screen since they were initially released. And I haven't seen them in a lushly appointed theater that serves wine and beer with an Austin crowd (Austin is a city populated almost entirely of Lebowskis). So, despite having seen the movies, should I go see them in this unique environment?

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE ME?
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