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lissa
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:11 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2148 Location: my computer
Threatening Britain?

And that's the thing - euphoria turns to sudden discontentment because of these failures on his part that everyone's manufacturing. No one can live under a microscope, most especially the man who inherited a mess of problems and has rolled up his sleeves to fix them to the best of his ability (HIS OATH).

I suppose you're pissed that he doesn't wear a suit jacket in the Oval Office too? Why not just jump on THAT bandwagon while you're at it?

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Marilyn
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:20 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8210 Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
This will come as a shock to many people, but I'm actually pretty pleased with Obama so far.

Anyone who's shocked that he's appointing hacks and insiders should look at the hacks and insiders he endorsed in Illinois, including Rod Blagojevich (On Public Affairs with Jeff Berkowitz -JB: "You working hard for Rod? BO:"You betcha." He has lied all along about his relationships with sleazy people, thrown people under the bus (like Rev. Wright), and most importantly, thrown the people of Illinois under the Titanic with his endorsements, his absentee senatorship, and his refusal to stop the appointment of Roland Burris.

Yet, he's made a good start at living up to his commitments to the voters. I've got this site bookmarked and intend to follow it for as long as his presidency lasts:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

I'm giving him my support, while still sending letters to criticize some of his actions. I said very early that should he be elected, it wil be up to all of us to hold his feet to the fire and see that he fulfills the trust people have put in him.

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carrobin
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:34 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
Let's just hope this financial collapse doesn't damage journalistic watchfulness further. The media dropped the ball with Bush/Cheney, and the press is suffering a lot more now. The bright spot: a lot more people--citizens, politicians, financiers, foreigners--are watching Obama than ever watched Bush.
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Syd
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:37 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12890 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
I'm about 80% pleased. I'm skeptical about the stimulus package, some of which is a step in the right direction, but half of which seems to be just throwing money around in hopes that will work. I'm not too unhappy over Daschle dropping out because I was unhappy when he was selected. As far as vetting him and Richardson go, Obama's people may have been going with the theory that if someone's been in politics that long without major scandal, they've effectively been vetted anyway, which is a bit naive. (Although I still think Richardson probably didn't do anything wrong, outside of wandering hands.)

The DEA is still being manned by Bush people, and they're doing some last-minute raids of medical marijuana growers, which is against Obama's stated policy. Obama needs to replace the culprits pretty quickly. (Apparently the whole marijuana issue is one where Congress told the Executive branch to do what they see fit, so Obama does have quite a bit of discretion., including stopping raids on medical marijuana where that is legal under state law. He can even cite the Tenth Amendment, which would be a novelty for a President.)

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billyweeds
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:39 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
carrobin wrote:
Let's just hope this financial collapse doesn't damage journalistic watchfulness further. The media dropped the ball with Bush/Cheney, and the press is suffering a lot more now. The bright spot: a lot more people--citizens, politicians, financiers, foreigners--are watching Obama than ever watched Bush.


Not that there's anything wrong with the above, but...

...I wonder if they'd be watching him so closely if he were a white man. There's a touch of racism about this new rush to judgment, IMO. (And, yes, I may be wrong.)
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carrobin
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:42 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
I don't think racism has much to do with it. Sure, some racists are keeping a squinty eye on him, but there are a lot more non-"white" folks who are emotionally vested in seeing him succeed. His race is one reason for the international interest, but mostly because it makes him a different kind of president than we've ever had before. And I just hope that overwhelming mass of expectation doesn't weigh him down too much.
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lissa
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:46 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2148 Location: my computer
billy, I've thought of that. I think it's more a matter of the carnivores waiting for The One (I've always hated that reference) to fail. They mock(ed) him as the Second Coming, and while he IS the freshest thing to come out of politics in the longest time, and he IS inspirational and he IS positive and offers hope and change...he got a bad rap as a deity. That damaged him in the long run (or the short - not yet 3 weeks) because the minute there's a normal problem (for Washington), he's suddenly a villain.

The bigger they are, right? And he was definitely lauded as the rock star they called him. I worried because I knew it would work against him. He was the candidate with fewer scandals in his background (Wright notwithstanding), the one with more wholesomeness than any other, and the one who stood the most to lose if he stumbled.

So while it MIGHT be a touch of racism - I think that's always possible - I think it's more a case of waiting for the mighty to fall and gloating over it when mistakes happen as proof that he isn't God.

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yambu
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:21 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
lissa wrote:
.....So while it MIGHT be a touch of racism - I think that's always possible - I think it's more a case of waiting for the mighty to fall and gloating over it when mistakes happen as proof that he isn't God.
If we're talking about the press, I don't see it. Except for the NY Post, he's been treated pretty fairly thus far. No one is following Limbaugh's famous remark. He got 53% of the popular vote by riding in on this crisis, and while there are, as always, deep philosophical differences on how to approach the economy, all of us want him to succeed.

As for racism, Billy, if you still think it's a factor after this victory margin, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:28 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Racism? Hardly.

I do think the conservative press is doing all it can to undermine him, but that's politics, not racism (they wouldn't go after a black conservative like this, and their defense of Clanrence Thomas suggests ideology matters much more than race).

Glenn Greenwald is one of Obama's staunchest critics, from the left. He's about as far from a racist as one can get.

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billyweeds
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
yambu wrote:
lissa wrote:
.....So while it MIGHT be a touch of racism - I think that's always possible - I think it's more a case of waiting for the mighty to fall and gloating over it when mistakes happen as proof that he isn't God.
If we're talking about the press, I don't see it. Except for the NY Post, he's been treated pretty fairly thus far. No one is following Limbaugh's famous remark. He got 53% of the popular vote by riding in on this crisis, and while there are, as always, deep philosophical differences on how to approach the economy, all of us want him to succeed.

As for racism, Billy, if you still think it's a factor after this victory margin, then I don't know what to tell you.


Oh, I said I might be wrong, but on top of that, I'm talking about a verrry subtle, frequently unconscious kind of racism that demands more "qualification" from a black man than a white one.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
lissa wrote:
Threatening Britain?


Yes. The article is posted above. You clearly aren't reading. Guess defending Obama from critics is too time consuming to look at facts.

lissa wrote:

I suppose you're pissed that he doesn't wear a suit jacket in the Oval Office too? Why not just jump on THAT bandwagon while you're at it?


This sentence makes no sense. Unless you're arguing that nominating a corrupt politician for an important office in the Obama administration is of no greater import than the dress code during office hours. Frightening if you do.

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:00 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
billyweeds wrote:
yambu wrote:
lissa wrote:
.....So while it MIGHT be a touch of racism - I think that's always possible - I think it's more a case of waiting for the mighty to fall and gloating over it when mistakes happen as proof that he isn't God.
If we're talking about the press, I don't see it. Except for the NY Post, he's been treated pretty fairly thus far. No one is following Limbaugh's famous remark. He got 53% of the popular vote by riding in on this crisis, and while there are, as always, deep philosophical differences on how to approach the economy, all of us want him to succeed.

As for racism, Billy, if you still think it's a factor after this victory margin, then I don't know what to tell you.


Oh, I said I might be wrong, but on top of that, I'm talking about a verrry subtle, frequently unconscious kind of racism that demands more "qualification" from a black man than a white one.


Do you think he's under a greater microscope than Clinton? I think the nutty false patriotism that lead the press not to criticize Bush much past 9-11 has maybe made us forget the normal press/president relationship.

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billyweeds
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Joe Vitus wrote:
lissa wrote:
Threatening Britain?


Yes. The article is posted above.


Above what? Point it out more specifically.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:04 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
I posted it yesterday. Here it is again.

Joe Vitus wrote:
Quote:
Andrew Sullivan notes this article from the BBC, reporting on threats made by the U.S. to punish Britain if British courts disclose what was done to one of its citizens, Binyam Mohamed, a former Guantanamo detainee who is suing the British Government for its complicity in his torture. British judges "said they wanted the full details of the alleged torture to be published in the interests of safeguarding the rule of law, free speech and democratic accountability" -- what are those strange things? -- but decided not to do so because it was "persuaded that it was not in the public interest to publish those details as the US government could then inflict on the citizens of the United Kingdom a very considerable increase in the dangers they face at a time when a serious terrorist threat still pertains."

So not only has our own Government erected an impenetrable wall of secrecy around what it has done, but is demanding that other countries do the same, upon threat of being punished. As Sullivan said: "Torture is a cancer. It spreads through the legal system until it destroys the integrity of all of it. It will also destroy alliances if allowed to spread. The scale of that destruction has yet to be measured or understood. Obama has now drawn a line under it. But that is only the start of a process of recovery."

UPDATE:
Relating to the last item, the Obama administration just actually praised Britain for succumbing to pressure and continuing to conceal details of what happened to Binyam Mohamed at the hands of the U.S. Government. The administration issued this self-evidently disturbing statement (h/t Pedinska):

Quote:
In a statement, the White House said it "thanked the UK government for its continued commitment to protect sensitive national security information".

It added that this would "preserve the long-standing intelligence sharing relationship that enables both countries to protect their citizens".
The British Government is denying the judges' assertion that the U.S. Government threatened to cut off intelligence sharing with Britain if it disclosed these facts, but the Obama administration's statement -- that Britain's willingness to conceal these facts would "preserve the long-standing intelligence sharing relationship that enables both countries to protect their citizens" -- strongly suggests that this is exactly what the U.S. was threatening to do.


The ACLU's Executive Director, Anthony Romero, wrote a letter to Hillary Clinton (.pdf) requesting clarification of the Obama administration's position and, in that letter, he quoted the scathing language from the British court regarding the U.S.'s demand that these facts be kept concealed:

Romero then issued this statement:

Quote:
Indeed we did not consider that a democracy [the United States] governed by the rule of law would expect a court in another democracy to suppress a sumnary of the evidence contained in reports by its own officials...relevant to allegations of torture, and cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment, politically embarrassing though it might be.

We had no reason...to anticipate there would be made a threat of the gravity of the kind made by the United States Government that it would reconsider its intelligence-sharing relationship, when all the considerations in relation to open justice pointed to us providing a limited but important summary of the reports.

Hope is flickering. The Obama administration's position is not change. It is more of the same. This represents a complete turn-around and undermining of the restoration of the rule of law. The new American administration shouldn't be complicit in hiding the abuses of its predecessors.


I'd like to hear the Obama administration's rationale for this behavior, but it's very difficult to think of anything that could possibly justify it.


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

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lissa
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:21 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2148 Location: my computer
Joe, YOU'RE clearly the one not reading. It's all over the news that Obama's being criticized for working in shirtsleeves instead of the Bush policy of suit and tie and jacket at all times. If you think I pulled that out of the air, you've got your head so far in the pity-party sand that you're not paying attention. The stupidity surrounding his dress code is almost as overblown as your indictments of him.

And as for the long article you posted - I get here in between doing my Masters thesis and taking care of a household, so sorry if I missed your diatribe. Not everyone is as invested in digging for dirt on Obama's first 19 days of office as you. I'll read the reprint when I can. I'm not defending him from critics - just trying to understand the sudden influx of pointed fingers from those who say they support him.

Abandoning someone after only 19 days on the job is not only jumping the gun, it's unfair and short sighted.

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