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Marc
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:32 am Reply with quote
Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 8424
marj,

do you ever sleep?
Are you a coke fiend, a coffee achiever or into ginseng?
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Marj
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Marc,

SHHH! Not in public!
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Marj
Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:51 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Hi Guys,

It appears that our discussion has slowed down. Slowed down? That's quite an understatement!

I'm not sure whether we're have said all there is to say, or we want to say about A Home. One thing I am certain of, is that like it or not, the RNC has had an effect on what we are thinking about. And where we want to direct our energies. I know it has for me!

So with uncertainties abounding, I am going to leave our discussion right where it is. Who knows perhaps by Friday or the weekend we will want to come back to it?

And you can be certain, that even with the speeches tonight, I will be checking in, as usual.

Smiles,
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Melody
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:25 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2242 Location: TX
Upon further reflection...

Isn't it odd that not a single one of these characters seems to have ever been in love? I mean, head over heels fall for somebody, whether that person is good for them or not.

Bobby is content to love both Jonathan and Clare, but he's not fallen. Jonathan is too withdrawn and bitter to fall. Clare is too practical and bitter to fall. Erich wants to fall, badly, but it's too late for him. Alice is the only one who's semi-going for it. Does any of this seem realistic? (no) Should it matter that they can't or won't fall? (dammit I want it to matter)

Okay, here's the thing. I was swept up in Cunningham's beautiful writing and smooth pacing while I was reading. But the more I think about these characters, the less I'm drawn to them. The less I like them. The less I'm inclined to revisit them. They just seem so depressing and dead end.

Somebody, please convince me otherwise. Is there a happy fall for these folks? because I just can't see it.

_________________
My heart told my head: This time, no.
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Marj
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Melody wrote:
Quote:
Isn't it odd that not a single one of these characters seems to have ever been in love? I mean, head over heels fall for somebody, whether that person is good for them or not.


Hey Melody,

Maybe we just don't know if they have. I would venture to guess Clare has. And do we know how Alice felt when she first met Ned. Actually she may have told us this, and I've forgotten.

But IMO, this kind of passionate love is not what Cunningham wanted to talk about. Rather he chose to look at other forms of love. Perhaps, as Wade pointed out, more profound and deep reaching than romantic love could ever be?

I wonder if we would even be discussing this book had it been it been about romantic or passionate love? Honestly, I think that A Home chose to deal with other aspects of love is what made it so unique!
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Kate
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:25 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1397 Location: Pacific Northwest
Mel/Marj,

Alice was 17 when she met Ned who was 10 years her senior and was in love - infatuation love - that is. I also found the inability of most of these people to have passionate physical love interesting. Yes, Bobby and Clare did at first, but remember by the time they moved up to the farm both of their interest in it was waning.

So, Cunningham really did seem much more interested in the familial love, how and why familes stay together even under adverse conditions.

Hey - Clayton was in love and made love - the only "normal" one of the bunch.
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Marj
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Quote:
Okay, here's the thing. I was swept up in Cunningham's beautiful writing and smooth pacing while I was reading. But the more I think about these characters, the less I'm drawn to them. The less I like them. The less I'm inclined to revisit them. They just seem so depressing and dead end.

Somebody, please convince me otherwise. Is there a happy fall for these folks? because I just can't see it.


One post I liked was Kate's. She said and I tend to agree, that we will never know where Jonathan is headed. Well, she said it better than that! But if any friend would care for me, the way Jonathan did Eric, is certainly someone I'd want in my life! Indeed, he is anything but dead end.

I love Alice too. She made a huge life change in her later years. And it wasn't due to any run of the mill, mid-life crisis. But it was daring! I respect that. I like her intelligence too. When she first appeared, I would never have been able to forsee the changes she later made. Or her smarts! But as I got to know her, I found she was anything but your typical '60's housewife. I've never known a woman like this, but I would like to.

And I would love to know Bobby. At first I thought he was kind of a lost soul and rather vacuous. But after this discussion, my opinion has changed drastically. A man who I think, possesses the ability to love so freely and so all encompassing, is a man I would love to know.

Of course, this is just my take. I would love to see Wade, and Kate weigh in on this. The truth is Mel, I don't think you're alone. The book never followed the kind of arc we're used to. And that can be off putting. And while I found more to like and even love about these characters than you, I know other people who didn't. The truth is that none of these characters are "exciting." It takes an investment to know them well enough to like them. But in the end, when someone says or does anything to move me; to touch my heart as these characters did, that's someone I want to know.
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Kate
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:36 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1397 Location: Pacific Northwest
I believe the happy fall for these folks did occur at the end. Jonathan finally felt at home somewhere, Eric was getting the care he or any person in his position deserves, Bobby - well that is obvious, and Clare has her child. I sort of felt like it was a bit of a happy ever after (we call them HAE's) - in the only way it could be for these particular people. Not my choice of HAE's but one just the same.
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Marj
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:38 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Quote:
Not my choice of HAE's but one just the same.

Hi Kate,

And perhaps not for most reader's either? But had the ending been a typical HAE, I doubt anyone would have been satisfied?

It occurs to me, some of the best books I've ever read, don't have typical HAE's. A few that come to mind: Madame Bovary, East of Eden, and perhaps the most famous book/movie of an earlier era: Gone with the Wind.

I wonder, given a little time, how many other great books we could come up with?

And yes, there is a considerable distinction between a happy ending and a satisfying one.
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ehle64
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:04 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
I happened to find it an incredibly sad ending. The fact that no matter how much and how unconditional Bobby's love is for everyone, they always leave. Now, Jonathan, since he was showing Karposi's Sarcoma, and it was 1990, I'm not sure he would last long enough with HIV to live until the cocktails came around that are keeping so many AIDs victims alive today. Plus, Jonathan and Bobby absolutely adored both Clare and Rebecca and they're gone. I really didn't think that she would go back. Perhaps for Jonathan's funeral. They met again @ Neds. Who knows? All I know is that I DID like these people, I did care about them and I was really sad after finishing the book and found it nowhere near being a HAE ending.
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Kate
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1397 Location: Pacific Northwest
I guess "happy" is the wrong term. Marj has it when she said satisfying. You know, I did not feel sad at the end, I felt like it was the way it should be and so while all of the occurances had sad undertones, it felt like Jonathan and Bobby were together and that was how it should end.

It is now going on just long enough that the details are getting hazy, 'cause I did not remember that Jonathan had actually gotten KS, just that he was afraid that that was one possible future for him. I may have to go back (after wrestling it out of my sister's hand) and chekc the ending again. I thought taking Eric for his first and last swim was very touching.
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Marj
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Quote:
Plus, Jonathan and Bobby absolutely adored both Clare and Rebecca and they're gone.

Wade,

Their leaving had me in tears, literally! The love and care that Jonathan and Bobby, showed Eric certainly did. I actually had to book down a number of times.

Did you think, Clare's leaving was in character? I couldn't begin to answer that question, as Clare was the one character I never really "got."
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Kate
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:23 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1397 Location: Pacific Northwest
Marj! We must have hit the submit button at the exact same moment.
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Marj
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:39 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Kate!

Your right! I wonder if this is a first?

Oh, the swim ... My heart. *sigh*

Btw, I didn't know that Jonathan was diagnosed, either. I know he was concerned ... a lot! Now it looks like I have to go back to the book as well.
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ehle64
Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
Yeah, the swim was absolutely heart-wrenching.

Clare didn't want Rebecca to be exposed to so much death at such a young age. She knew that Erich was on his way out, and I believe that as close as she and Jonathan were, she knew his time was coming next. It's hard to say whether she was being selfish or actually acting on Rebecca's behalf. But to me, and with all the friends I lost around that time, it's pretty fuckin' sad and eventually one tough-assed choice to make.
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