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mo_flixx

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:42 am

Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533

Joe Vitus wrote:

I'm not crazy about Hillary being allowed to run, either, when she hadn't even been a resident. But, again this is the big issue for me, it wasn't a political favor to be elected. It was the decision of the people.
...

Joe - don't you get it? ANY NY Senator now will be appointed, NOT elected. The election will happen when the term runs out.

It's gonna be awhile before the PEOPLE have any say in the matter. Them's the rules, like it or lump it.

Joe Vitus

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:08 am

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

Mo,

You are the one who does not get it. I know the position is going to be appointed for now. Duh. What I don't get is why Caroline Kennedy is using the situation as her back door into politics? Why not step aside for now, let someone qualified take the seat, and at the next election, if she feels she has more to offer than the incumbant, mount a campaign which will allow her to publicly debate the issues, prove her credentials or her personal strengths to the electorate, and win by a vote. Why is my argument so difficult for you to follow?

For some reason, she doesn't want to do this. She's never considered seeking office before, that she's made known to anyone, and she's leaping at a very rare opportunity that allows her to slip in, sheilded from both questions and the voting public's opinion. It smells pretty fishy to me.

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gromit

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:33 am

Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9008 Location: Shanghai

So she should wait and not take advantage of this opportunity, because ... Joe has some problem with it?

Hey the guy deciding wasn't even elected governor.
maybe he should step down and really be elected governor.

And an argument can be made that Kennedy would have an easier transition to senator than most, as she can rely on Teddy's advice, a family history of political knowledge, access to top advisers, support form Obama and the name recognition to be taken seriously from Day One. Whether any of that will make her a good senator is anyone's guess, but those seem like advantages to me, to help offset her lack of a political resume.

I'd prefer someone with good intentions and policies I agree with more than someone who just has long resume but is less liberal.

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Joe Vitus

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 am

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

I'm not the only one who has a problem with it. That's an over-simplification, and you know it.

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher

mo_flixx

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:54 am

Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533

Joe Vitus wrote:

Joe -- of course I "get it." I just think your argument doesn't hold water.

Caroline hasn't violated the finance rules...which is what you first claimed, and then reneged. Or didn't I understand those insinuations?

I guess if one's name is Kennedy and had a father who was a beloved, assassinated president, you are supposed to be a little wallflower...which is exactly what you think Caroline was. Actually like any good Catholic/Jewish wife and mother, Mrs. Schlossberg was RAISING HER CHILDREN and writing books.

Is she qualified?? More so than Palin, I'd venture by virtue of the arguments gromit has presented. And she doesn't have a knocked up daughter whose " mother-in-law to be" has been arrested for Oxycontin.

No one can knock her contacts. And she hasn't shown any of the problems Bobby's kids did (affair with the nanny, substance abuse, etc., death by overdose, etc.).
I'd put her at less qualified than Hillary was when Hillary's major experience years ago was being First Lady, a post in transition...for 1st Lady used to be considered just a ceremonial duty. But then, Caroline learned all about that from her mother.

And just who are these others who are...I'm not sure I understand...either supposed to be APPOINTED or run in some kind of election to obtain the stamp of the people until the seat's term runs out when presumably Miss Caroline will be a shoo-in for the seat. BTW her cousin Patrick Kennedy from Rhode Island is another example of the family's tendancy to carpetbag.

Example: Look at NM. Richardson vacates his seat to Diane Denish. No election. Are we supposed to stage an election so we can give Val Kilmer a chance to be our governor. Maybe he'd actually win!

And what would you say about Jebbie and the little brown ones? Would you take such a hard line with them?

No one ever said politics was clean or fair. Ask Marilyn if you're not sure.

Joe Vitus

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:17 am

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

None of your arguments makes sense. No one is "supposed" to be a wallflower. John, Jr. wasn't. But Caroline has been. Clearly. If you don't get that, you're oblivious.

I didn't claim she violated the financial rules. That doesn't mean she isn't buying the office. You don't just buy the office by offereing more money, but a continual supply of money and through the glamour of your name. Stop pretending to be so naive.

No, she's not more qualified than Palin. Which doesn't mean Palin was qualified to begin with. But Palin did have government experience. As did Obama. But Caroline does not.

She's written cheesy books that demonstrate no political ability. A civics book and some Christmas and family stuff.

Great, she has contacts. I bet Barbra Streisand has them too. Do you want her in office without an election?

Plenty of people have been floated for the position. One of them is even a Kennedy. They all have proven track records. They are all more qualified. There is nothing in Caroline's history that says she can work with people, or that she understands the people she will represent.

I hardly think Ted Kennedy is in a position these days to do much advising on the nuts-and-bolts level that she needs. I'm not sure his instructions are the kind I'd want any senator I respect to pay attention to, anyway.

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher

Joe Vitus

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:19 am

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

Wow, is your next to last sentence offensive. I guess you support W and Cheney and Halliburton and all the backroom deals that have polluted our nation's history recently. After all, politcs according to you is a dirty, amoral business. And we should, if I'm reading you correctly, be satisfied with it.

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You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

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marantzo

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:04 pm

Guest

Quote:

I'm not sure his instructions are the kind I'd want any senator I respect to pay attention to, anyway.

That's strange, being as Ted Kennedy is thought of as being one of the most effective and diligent Senators in the last few decades, on both sides of the Senate.

Marilyn

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:05 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8210 Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)

From John Kass, Chicago Tribune

Quote:

Obama selected outgoing Illinois U.S. Rep. Ray LaHood (R-Combine) for the post of secretary of transportation, putting LaHood in charge of Obama's planned trillion-dollar public works bonanza being sold as a jobs bill.

"Every dollar that we spend, we want it spent on projects that are there, not because of politics, but because they're good for the American people," Obama said. "If we're building a road, it better not be a road to nowhere."

Not because of politics? What does the great reformer take us for, a bunch of chumbolones?

What Obama forgot to mention is that with LaHood in charge of the roads, they'll lead to one place:

Bill Cellini.

Cellini, the Republican boss of Springfield who has been indicted in the Blagojevich scandal for allegedly shaking down the producer of the movie "Million Dollar Baby," is a strong LaHood ally. Cellini runs Sangamon County, and LaHood has enjoyed Cellini's political support.

They also joined to help oust the last true reformer in Illinois politics, former Sen. Peter Fitzgerald, the Republican who was denied an endorsement from his own state party after he brought federal prosecutors to Illinois with no connection to the bipartisan Combine that runs things here.

Republican money man Cellini is not only the Chicago political connection to machine Democrats and Mayor Richard Daley's City Hall—and a Blagojevich fundraiser—he's also the boss of the Illinois Asphalt Pavement Association.

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tirebiter

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:24 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4011 Location: not far away

Well, that's it then. Might as well kill ourselves.

Obama's in the bag for the Illinois Asphalt Pavement Association.

I guess I knew it all along, but seeing it in cold type just sends a chill down my spine.

It's the gas pipe for me.

whiskeypriest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:33 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."

Joe Vitus wrote:

I'm not the only one who has a problem with it. That's an over-simplification, and you know it.

Caroline Kennedy is hardly the first person to become Senator as her first political office, and she will not be the last. And from what I gather, she's not "buying" the seat in the Blago sense of the term. No one is talking about her ability to raise money for the Gov, but for herself: she is because of her name and connections able to raise a vast amount of money in a short period of time (she has to run for reelection in a special election in two years, and two years after that in the regular election cycle for the seat. That's 20 mil to raise in four years, minimum, and it is important because the Dems want to keep the seat. And that consideration has nothing to do with her being a Kennedy per se: the NY Guv will consider that fund raising ability with every candidate.

If you simply say, she's not qualified and should not be appointed, well, that's your view and I have some sympathy for it. But when you try to make more out of it, that she should for some reason wait until she can run for the office, I think that's hooey. Cuomo wouldn't have to, why should she?

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Joe Vitus

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:39 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

Cuomo has proven experience?

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

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Syd

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:51 pm

Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12890 Location: Norman, Oklahoma

Another horror is that the new Secretary of Education, who will be responsible for molding the minds of our children, leads straight to Marilyn and the Skokie machine.* The nation may never recover.

It's too bad Governor Paterson can't simply appoint the spouse of the outgoing Senator. Unfortunately, in this case, that spouse is overqualified. Traditionally, the spouse should have no experience at all. Maybe he can appoint Eliot Spitzer's wife.

*A microwave oven, I believe.

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Syd

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:52 pm

Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12890 Location: Norman, Oklahoma

Joe Vitus wrote:

Cuomo has proven experience?

Since he's the state Attorney General (an elected position) and used to be the US Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, I would say yes.

_________________
I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament

whiskeypriest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:57 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."

Joe Vitus wrote:

Cuomo has proven experience?

Again, if you are arguing she lacks the right experience, I have some sympathy with the argument. If you argue that she should not be appointed for any other reason, I disagree. If you think there is something wrong with her using her name recognition and connections and ability to finance a Senate run, I disagree - Cuomo and the other candidates are making the same arguments. Her appointment should not be held to any different standard.

My own view is that she does not appear qualified to run for Senator, but that is not the same as her qualifications to be Senator.

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