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yambu
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:40 am Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
I agree. I wasn't saying that Godfather was the lesser film.
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mo_flixx
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:28 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
I feel as if I'm trapped in Scorsese Forum hell.

Rolling Eyes
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jeremy
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
Perusing Rod's the list of Scorsese reviews: it's a pretty good body of work. Spielberg, Altman, Lean...he more than belongs in the pantheon.

I couldn't bring myself to say Scott (Ridley that is) in the same list. I'm not sure why. Is it because he's happy to hack? Maybe it's because I sense he's some how considered below the salt.

Fuck it! Here's to Ridley Scott, filmmaker.


Last edited by jeremy on Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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gromit
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:25 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9010 Location: Shanghai
What pantheon might you be constructing?

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marantzo
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:45 pm Reply with quote
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I can't help but be entertained by Scarface. It is so out there, that it is funny as hell. When I saw it the first time, I thought, "This thing is grotesquely ridiculous." On further viewing I got very comfortable with it's parody-like absurdity and it's great entertainment value.

I am also a Departed fan. Never did care a great deal for Taxi Driver, and I was one, in the same town as Travis, so that make me an expert in my opinion. Wink Though I found Raging Bull to be a very well made film, I found it too constantly down for my taste. I enjoyed Gangs of New York. Casino remains my favourite Scorsese. It has none of the claustrophobic feel that some of his great films can give me.
Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
My point was less whether Scarface was a good or bad movie (I didn't like it at the time, but I haven't seen it since I was in my teens), but that GoodFellas did not break new ground by showing a de-romanticized vision of gangsters as scum.

I didn't bother seeing Casino because it seemed like more of the same (if Scorsese never makes another movie with gangsters it won't be too soon for me), but I have to admit your enthusiasm for the movie makes me curious. I'm probably going to have to rent it.

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jeremy
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:07 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
Nobody suggested Unforgiven was a poor film because Clint Eastwood had already made two revisionist westerns with High Plain Drifter and Pale Rider. I don't consider that the fact that Scarface was determinedly unsentimental invalidates Goodfellas as an anti-dote to romanticism of The Godfather.

incidentally, the first two Godfather films are firmly lodged at the top of my best ever film list.

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I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it.
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billyweeds
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:25 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Though Casino is not my favorite Scorsese, it does contain my favorite of all Scorsese-directed performances (yes, including De Niro), that of the oft-maligned and possibly certifiable Sharon Stone, who can be a magnificent actress, and shows it here. She lost a deserved Oscar to another SS, Susan Sarandon, who deserves an Oscar but not for Dead Man Walking, her winning performance.

Can't equate The Godfather: Part II with the original. The first was classic and universal; the second didn't have the cosmic metaphor down pat enough and came off like just another gangster film, albeit a wonderfully directed and acted one.
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marantzo
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:14 pm Reply with quote
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Sharon Stone, whom I have never liked very much, in films or out, except for her role in Total Recall, was terrific in Casino. It was sort of like her To Die For.
Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
jeremy wrote:
Nobody suggested Unforgiven was a poor film because Clint Eastwood had already made two revisionist westerns with High Plain Drifter and Pale Rider. I don't consider that the fact that Scarface was determinedly unsentimental invalidates Goodfellas as an anti-dote to romanticism of The Godfather.

incidentally, the first two Godfather films are firmly lodged at the top of my best ever film list.


Eastwood is hardly considered to be in Scorcese's category of important directors, nor does anyone make the same claims for greatness for his movies. So the comparison is not apt.

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jeremy
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:25 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
I am not one of Eastwood's biggest fans, but I think you do him a disservice. He is a director of the first rank. Unforgiven is a truly great film and one or two of his others haven't been so bad either.

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I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:32 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
I still think you're missing my point that what I'm criticizing with Scorsese's later career, and GoodFellas is a good example, is not a question of competency or ability to entertain. I'm not saying "Bad filmmaker, incompetant filmmaking." I'm saying that the heavy plaudits he continues to earn aren't in line with the work he creates. GoodFellas was not a bad movie. But it wasn't groudbreaking or original, either. It was good moviemaking. But that's all it was. I'm arguing against the superlatives. His current work is not the work of an artist at the peak of his craft. Yet people write about him as if he were. That passed decades ago.

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Rod
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:49 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia
Joe Vitus wrote:
I still think you're missing my point that what I'm criticizing with Scorsese's later career, and GoodFellas is a good example, is not a question of competency or ability to entertain. I'm not saying "Bad filmmaker, incompetant filmmaking." I'm saying that the heavy plaudits he continues to earn aren't in line with the work he creates. GoodFellas was not a bad movie. But it wasn't groudbreaking or original, either. It was good moviemaking. But that's all it was. I'm arguing against the superlatives. His current work is not the work of an artist at the peak of his craft. Yet people write about him as if he were. That passed decades ago.


Reductive and ignorant.

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:12 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
I know you are, but what am I?

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tirebiter
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4011 Location: not far away
Boys! Quit bickering! Go to neutral corners so we can decide that Rod's right. (Sorry, Joe, but if you haven't seen the films you're arguing from ignorance.)
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