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| billyweeds |
 Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:58 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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yambu wrote: Wellll....loosely similar, in the sense they both deal, exquisitely, with justice delayed.
And something else...SPOILER ALERT IN WHITE FOR MATCH PLAY...
The murder of an unwanted girlfriend.
This was the real plagiarism. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:58 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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billyweeds wrote: Joe (and Jeremy)--I said it couldn't be summed up in a catchphrase, which is unfortunately what Joe attempted to do and got caught in Jeremy's innately unwelcoming trap. Petit was not just trying to create something beautiful, though it turned out that he did just that. He was more of a rebel than an artist, and the walk was more defiant than beauty-seeking. In other words, there were a bunch of reasons for the walk, and I submit that it's impossible to criticize the man or the movie without seeing it.
I expect that I will be so enamoured of Petit's exploits than some, and whilst I believe it is possible to talk about the motivation or point of these craving-for-acclaim performances in general, I accept the last statement in Billy's post and will not comment anymore until I've seen the documentary. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:19 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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I'm curious. Has anyone here seen a movie called, The Last Supper? Since it's a film that came out 1996, it may have been seen and discussed back on the NY Times forums. Still I don't want to say to much about it, as just saying anything could be a spoiler. Let's put it this way. While it has some major flaws, it's worth discussion.
I got a kind of kick out of it. I dunno, there's something about it. Yet, I doubt I could recommend it. It's on HBO for one more day. So if you have a free hour or so ... |
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| Earl |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:44 pm |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 2621
Location: Houston
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billyweeds wrote: yambu wrote: Wellll....loosely similar, in the sense they both deal, exquisitely, with justice delayed.
And something else...SPOILER ALERT IN WHITE FOR MATCH POINT...
The murder of an unwanted girlfriend.
This was the real plagiarism.
Re Woody Allen's Match Point: I haven't seen A Place in the Sun (although I'm aware of the basic plot), so that comparison hadn't occurred to me. I simply thought Allen was plagiarizing himself by remaking the Martin Landau half of Crimes and Misdemeanors with a British accent.
(I liked Match Point, by the way, so the above isn't a criticism.) |
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"I have a suspicion that you are all mad," said Dr. Renard, smiling sociably; "but God forbid that madness should in any way interrupt friendship." |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:40 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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Earl: While I've seen A Place in the Sun numerous times that plagerism somehow escaped me. I did however think of what you did. Now, of course I have to watch it again.
And I don't know if plagerism is really the right term. I felt he was exploring a theme more than anything else. |
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| Rod |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:04 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 2944
Location: Lithgow, Australia
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Marj wrote: I'm curious. Has anyone here seen a movie called, The Last Supper? Since it's a film that came out 1996, it may have been seen and discussed back on the NY Times forums. Still I don't want to say to much about it, as just saying anything could be a spoiler. Let's put it this way. While it has some major flaws, it's worth discussion.
I got a kind of kick out of it. I dunno, there's something about it. Yet, I doubt I could recommend it. It's on HBO for one more day. So if you have a free hour or so ...
I saw it way back. Mildly amusing but ditzy satire. I liked Ron Perlman as the evil shock jock though. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:43 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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billyweeds wrote: mo_flixx wrote: This English tragedy owes a lot to _An American Tragedy_.
Interesting you should say that about Cassandra's Dream, since Match Play was practically out-and-out plagiarized from An American Tragedy (or A Place in the Sun if you know it only from the movies).
I think both films owe something to _An American Tragedy_. And the London trilogy is about climbers and their downfalls - which reminds me a bit of Henry James, too. |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:13 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
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Location: SF Bay Area
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| Or Shakespeare, for that matter - Claudius offing the king for his wife and the crown. I mean, this is one of the proto-themes. How do you "plagiarize" a proto-theme? |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:21 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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| I was knowingly misusing the word "plagiarism." I'm aware it wouldn't withstand the legal definition at all, but the plots were extremely similar. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:26 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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Rod wrote: Marj wrote: I'm curious. Has anyone here seen a movie called, The Last Supper? Since it's a film that came out 1996, it may have been seen and discussed back on the NY Times forums. Still I don't want to say to much about it, as just saying anything could be a spoiler. Let's put it this way. While it has some major flaws, it's worth discussion.
I got a kind of kick out of it. I dunno, there's something about it. Yet, I doubt I could recommend it. It's on HBO for one more day. So if you have a free hour or so ...
I saw it way back. Mildly amusing but ditzy satire. I liked Ron Perlman as the evil shock jock though.
Ditzy is a good word for it, Rod. I admit I knew absolutely nothing about it when I turned it on. So, while it started out as am almost shocking black comedy it became almost silly after a while. Still, some of the acting was quite good, especially Ron Perlman. I liked how the he was the one who ended the escapades of these friends. And the way his character almost stole the show! |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:24 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
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Location: SF Bay Area
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For being so dated, The Red Shoes ('48 ) is great entertainment, to a point. Two very sympathetic up-and-comers, a male composer and a female ballet dancer, each on separate career tracks, intersect under their brilliant, well-connected common mentor, Boris Lermontov (great name choice). They fall in love, of course, which sets the jealous Lermontov in control of the plot for the rest of the film.
There are extended scenes of a ballet called "The Red Shoes", based on a Hans Christian Anderson tale. The thing is, there is no such ballet, so the film folks have created one out of whole cloth, and it is masterful.
The story falls apart in the last fifteen minutes, when the '40's-accepted male/female roles kick in. I can say no more, except see this film. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:26 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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yambu wrote: Or Shakespeare, for that matter - Claudius offing the king for his wife and the crown. I mean, this is one of the proto-themes. How do you "plagiarize" a proto-theme?
The Allen London trilogy plays up the American fish-out-of-water (much as Allen does in "Vicky Cristina Barcelona") with the more 'sophisticated' Europeans (or as they may appear to us - Eurotrash). There is NO American character in "Cassandra's Dream," but America is present in the guise of the uncle who has made his fortune there and the actress and MacGregor who wish to go there to make their fortune. This is more Jamesian than Shakespearean.
_An American Tragedy_ reference in 2 of the 3 films is very clear. To say more would present a SPOILER...but it's there all right. If you aren't reminded of Shelley Winters (albeit in another form), there's something wrong with you. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:28 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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re: "The Red Shoes."
I have yet to see a film by the great Michael Powell that didn't thoroughly enchant me. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:33 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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mo_flixx wrote: re: "The Red Shoes."
I have yet to see a film by the great Michael Powell that didn't thoroughly enchant me.
I sort of remained on the outside watching The Red Shoes unfold. Remember it as overlong, though just checked and 2'13" isn't that long.
If you like The Red Shoes, try Children of Paradise.
As for Powell, I was really charmed with I Know Where I'm Going. His unusual Peeping Tom is great. Black Narcissus didn't do much for me, but the sets were impressive.
I still have to watch Col. Blimp and Canterbury Tale.
Criterion just put out The Small Back Room (1949). So that should turn up here soon. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:16 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| gromit and I are in almost total agreement, incuding the movies we haven't yet seen. I was somewhat more in favor of Black Narcissus than gromit is, but otherwise, yes, particularly about Children of Paradise. It's one-of-a-kind and sensationally great. |
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