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| jeremy |
 Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:47 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| I don't know about derivative, but I think both Franz Ferdinand and Scissor Sisters are fairly disposable - I can't see me putting one of their CDs on in ten years time the way I would a Pupl album, say. But much of the best pop music is ephemeral, and I like having both those bands around. |
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I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| chris563 |
| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:15 pm |
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Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 50
Location: SF CA USA
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| my 2 favorite retard songs are Canibus' "get retarded" ("nine out of ten of these rap artists is garbage...g-g-g-g-gget reatrded!"), and of course the Dead Milkmen's "taking retards to the zoo" ("it was a boring day, nothing to do, so we get a load of retards, take em to the zoo") |
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| Macca00 |
| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:59 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Liverpool/England
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The streets began to thicken tonight as the tourists ventured around a city which they'd viewed through semi-mythical eyes.
The Matthew Street Festival, the annual celebration of The Beatles' music & their legacy, has swung into action; a normally run-of-the-mill U.K. city has been transformed for the next three days.
Talking to a guy who used to play on the same bill as the Fab Four in the Cavern Club, as the beers were ordered in a crowded Liverpool bar, I tried to rationalise just how & why it was that my city spawned a rock 'n' roll band which changed 20th Century popular music. Enough, it demands a whole bloody dissertation, or, at the very least, yet another hardback tome on The Beatles' formative years & British post-war culture.
We talked about how American music arrived in Liverpool & the U.K. via merchant seafarers. Early R&B & Country 78s found a ready audience. Parents listened, kids formed bands, too numerous too mention.
I'm usually wary of Beatle cliches in this city, there's so much of the local music scene in the 21st Century to appreciate.
Yet, as my Merseybeat companion & I sank more beers in a bar which resounded to hearty renditions of Beatle standards, I did feel an immeasurable civic pride & pleasure. Strip away the booze, & it would still be there.
There will be more postings from Beatle city this weekend. Feedback requested & appreciated. |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:22 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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Macca as I lift my glass of non-alcoholic Kaliber, here's a hardy cheers to you, The Beatles, Liverpool and the sailors who brought the music from across the seas!
Love is all you need.. |
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| unohoo |
| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:55 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 210
Location: Houston, Tx
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On Rick: I only come to this forum on this site, so I wouldn't see any wonderfully scripted posts about the legend that was posted about Rick James in other forums. A sincere apology to all who took offense at the lame-o and now I feel like a lame-o for not making it better known that the tongue were planted in cheek. Bump that though.
I just read an article on Bjork in The New Yorker which was a pretty interesting read. I had heard that she was going to be doing a strictly vocal album this time and the thought of it didn't seem interesting to me. I instantly thought of Bjork acapella, but the article clarified that misconeption in that it won't be just Bjork's voice, it will be an album made up of vocal sounds. So while there won't be any beats or instrumentation there will be elements of instrumentation via the human voice. According to the article she wanted to do a song with The Yonce. Sounds cool. |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:26 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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Quote: it won't be just Bjork's voice, it will be an album made up of vocal sounds. So while there won't be any beats or instrumentation there will be elements of instrumentation via the human voice
Not to rain on Bjork's parade or creativity, but Todd Rundgren studio wizard that he is, did a great recording this way using only his sampled voice as a basis for all of the instruments and (obviously) vocals on his 1985 A Cappella album.
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:zjxvad1kv8wn~T1 |
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"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
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| unohoo |
| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:44 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 210
Location: Houston, Tx
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| Yeah but Rundgren didn't have Rahzel on his album. I actually heard about that album. The only song I know by Rundgren is some song (the title escapes the brain) that the Isley Bros. covered. I never decided to delve into Rundgren's catalog, figured the Isley's did the song a service just like they cleaned up Dylan's "Lay Lady Lay". (that is Dylan right?) |
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| chris563 |
| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:41 pm |
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Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 50
Location: SF CA USA
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| speaking of postwar culture, there's a neat article on WWI in that new yorker with the bjork article |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:35 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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Jeremy wroteQuote: I don't know about derivative, but I think both Franz Ferdinand and Scissor Sisters....
Have you heard their music ? If it's not derivative, birds don't fly. The re-creation of sound of studio technique, vocals and instruments is quite intentional. It is intentional not even by some sort of second hand or subliminal influence but by literally copying something. Which by definition would be derivative. |
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"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
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| Macca00 |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:37 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Liverpool/England
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| Marc |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:42 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: The re-creation of sound of studio technique, vocals and instruments is quite intentional. It is intentional not even by some sort of second hand or subliminal influence but by literally copying something. Which by definition would be derivative.
Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Elvis did it, Stones did it, Beatles did it. Derivation is very much a part of the history of rock and roll. The important things is does it have energy, does it make you feel good. Franz Ferdinand and Scissor Sisters pass my most important requirement of rock: they turn me on. |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:55 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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Marc ..I only hope that bands like Franz Ferdinand and Scissor Sisters continue to grow and find their own place which is the reason that most of us loved and cherished the Beatles and Stones...for their eventual freshness and jumping off from the past. Quite revolutionary artistically...I haven't seen that from these newer bands..yet.
I will argue that it is the (original and quite differently composed) stuff from the old bands you mention and not their fledgling takes on r&b masters that set them apart and make them artists that will be listened to for centuries. That's what I am looking for in new bands. Enjoy these guys by all means. I do to from time to time as well, especially Franz Ferdinand. |
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"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
-- Horace Walpole |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:30 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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I didn't deny that they were derivative, though I would prefer a less pejorative adjectival phrase. All rock musicians learn there trade by playing the music they want to emulate, it's natural especially in a young band that the influences will be apparent.
I parked the derivative question, and merely made the point that, though I liked them, I suspected that neither band had much staying power. This was not meant to be too scathing, because much of favourite music, and I'm very much a singles guy, had been by shortlived (in career terms) artists. |
_________________
I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:46 pm |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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jeremy and Marc...I know what you guys are saying. If it rocks..dig it. That it. Just to show you what an old fogey (read hip old shit) I am, I'm getting tickets to see Arthur Lee and LOVE with The Zombies at Town Hall here in NYC in October. Bring your walkers.  |
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"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
-- Horace Walpole |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:27 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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| I saw Arthur Lee and Love (actually Das Damen) at Tramps in NYC about 10 years ago. He was absolutely amazing. |
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