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marantzo

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:37 pm

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billyweeds wrote:

carrobin wrote:

It's bad enough for us ordinary women to cope with prejudices about aging and appearance--sometimes I think we kind of disappear, as far as men are concerned, when we reach 50 or so.

Depends on the man. This is a borderline sexist statement.

Agree with my fellow oldtimer, 100% But women get a pass on all that sexist stereotyping. It come with the whining. Of course when an older woman hooks up with some 20's pretty boy it's all a chorus of, "You go girl!!!!"

Befade

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:52 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3784 Location: AZ

Women I know spend $60 and up per month to cover their gray. It's an industry like bottled water.

When I became concerned about my widening neck.....I responded to a tv ad for a special foam ball that you could put under your chin and exercise the sag away. It helped.......but it created these strong wrinkle lines going from my mouth on down Crying or Very sad

There really are alot of ugly people out there......It's hard not to revere the few gloriously beautiful specimens.

jeremy

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:22 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)

Yeah, but it's not easy being a paragon of physical perfection.

_________________
I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it.

carrobin

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:38 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC

Tire: Many thanks for the description. I'm going to print that out and stick it on my bathroom mirror and read it every morning!

Marj

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:42 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan

This is an interesting discussion. And while carrobin's post may have seemed borderline sexist, it's true that many men can get away with a lot that women cannot. Of course that's not to say that some men haven't had a tip or a tuck here and there.

Generally I agree with Lorne. There are women employed in this industry today that would have had to have retired 20 years ago. Some people, men and women age well, while others do not. OTOH, there are women and men who have ruined their careers because of the wrong kind of surgery. I literally shudder when I look at Kidman's face or Meg Ryan's lips.

I wonder how many of us would, if we could afford it, not do something minor. Nancy, not withstanding, I bet more women than men would say yes.

Betsy -- How does one find that ball?

carrobin

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:08 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC

It's not sexist, it's just reality. The fact is, a man becomes more interesting to women as he ages, while the opposite is true for women. It's partly due to the way we evolved, of course--fertile young women who could bear lots of healthy children, older men who could bring home a wildebeest big enough to feed the clan--and it's partly due to the fact that men rely more on visual cues and attractiveness.

And an actress whose looks are fading had better have both talent and contacts to keep working. Meryl Streep has it easier than Nicole Kidman because Streep has never been considered a fabulous beauty and has always been respected for her work. But you don't see Meryl in romantic roles anymore, do you?

It's like those actors we've speculated about who could be gay. If they're known more for their talent than their looks, they don't have so much to worry about. However, if they're macho action heroes, they have to keep the straight flag flying.

jeremy

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:32 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)

carrobin wrote:

I thought it a little unfair of Billy to indignantly label your post as 'borderline sexist'. Though I'd say I am far from resistant to the charms of older women, I'll confess to looking at younger women whose attractions are...well...more immediate. And I'm sure it also works the other way around. That said, I'd be wary of quasi-scientific explanantions for sexist and patriarchal behaviours. Typically written by a middle-aged man at an august institute in Utah, I think they are often amount to little more than a mixture of speculation and dubious comparisons with other species. To say they are self-serving...

Just look at the very different behaviours of loving, matriarchal bonobo communites with those of their closely related, but highly aggressive and territorial cousins the common chimpanzees. Which if any of the two groups provides the best model for human behaviour? I don't know, but if we struggle to draw the appropriate lessons from our nearest kin, why should we give much credence to nonesense that might compare the behaviours of a human male with that of an alpha wolf, say.

mo_flixx

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:51 pm

Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533

Botox is _temporary_. Not all wrinkle fillers are, but Botox IS...so if any of these actresses with frozen faces don't like the look, all they have to do is wait six months.

The sad cases are some of the women who've used permanent fixes for cheekbones and lips who've ended up looking like freaks.

billyweeds

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:54 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City

jeremy wrote:

carrobin wrote:

I thought it a little unfair of Billy to indignantly label your post as 'borderline sexist'.

The sexist part was the generalization of "men" rather than "some men" or, okay, "a lot of men."

billyweeds

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:07 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City

That discussion should really be in The Lobby now, anyway. On the subject of Current Film, I just saw Redacted, Brian De Palma's film about the Iraqi war. It is not for the squeamish, to put it mildly. There is a rape scene to rival the one from Irreversible in almost unwatchable imagery. There is a beheading. The movie is powerful and unforgettable in many ways. In its utter anger, it's unique. This is not to say it's perfect, or even "good" (the acting is pretty bad, for one thing), but in the genre of Iraqi war films, I'd put it ahead of In the Valley of Elah, even though the acting in Elah is far better. De Palma has something to say and says it in a most unusual manner, through supposedly "found" videotapes, blog entries, and internet discoveries.

Strangely, the movie is more reminiscent of The Blair Witch Project than De Palma's Vietnam war drama Casualties of War.

Rod

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:17 pm

Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia

I remember when I saw the listing for Beowulf on the IMDb, being so excited by a film with that cast headed up by Ray Winstone, the living emodiment of Anglo-Saxon pith, as Beowulf, the mythical exemplar of Anglo-Saxon pith, and thinking, how cool is that?...And then I find, like, it's a bunch of pixels pretending to be Ray Winstone except with a six-pack...What is this shit?

_________________
A long time ago, but somehow in the future...It is a period of civil war and renegade paragraphs floating through space.

ehle64

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:22 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A

All I know is it's playing @ our local multiplex in Digital 3D and I kinda wanna see it.

Also there is the new Coen Bro film, but to be quite frank, the violence aspect is keeping me away from it.

_________________
It truly disappoints me when people do something for you via no prompt of your own and then use it as some kind of weapon against you at a later time and place. It is what it is.

Befade

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:11 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3784 Location: AZ

Quote:

Betsy -- How does one find that ball?

Marj.......I'll answer you in the lobby.

jeremy

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:40 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)

The word on the quadrangle is that much of the poertry has been excised Beowulf, but that a lot of laughably humourless, Teutonic Ah-nold stlye, macho posturing remains(a fact confirmed by the clip I listened to). On the upside said, they haven't spared the pixels on the action scenes, which are suitably in-your-face brutal and apparently best seen in Imax 3D. As are Angelina Jolie's breasts. Mrs Pitt, who plays Grendel's mother (would you believe) and, for some reason, is one of the few mocap actors that the animators decided didn't warrant much digital enhancement.

jeremy

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:11 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)

Despite the warnings, I had to go and see Elizabeth: The Golden Age. It was confusingly titled Elizabeth 2 at my local multiplex, but I guess calling Elizabeth One-Two would not have added much clarity. Set during one of the key moments in English history, a time, arguably, when a still malleable idea of England was quenched and tempered, the film was never likely to be true or equal to the scope of its subject. Regardless, I was still taken aback by how far it fell short of even my lowered expectations.

I was actually embarrassed watching it. Embarrassed rather than stirred to see the history of England reduced to a simplistic battle between the evil Catholicism of Spain and the emerging liberalism of a Protestant England; embarrassed to see Elizabeth’s “Body but of a weak and feeble woman” speech at Tilbury reduced a piece of cinematic kitsch; and embarrassed for a glorious Cate Blanchett. Cate was born to play Elizabeth R in all her red-headed, vain, thoughtful, cruel, vacillating, brilliant majesty, and, perhaps hoping she was in the part of lifetime, she gives it the full eleven, occassionally giving us glimpses of what this film could have been. Sadly, rather than being raised up by the film, she has to drag it around like sodden train behind her. Fellow Aussie, the ever reliable Geoffrey Rush manages to shoulder some of the burden, but he, like all the actors, suffers through having to carry a hopelessly stretched and underwritten film. Clive Owen is made to look ridiculous. He has to provide both the love interest in a trite romance, and, in one of the worst choreographed battle sequences, ever, lead the good fight against the Spanish. If Kapur didn’t have the wit or the budget to do justice to the defeat of the Spanish Armada, he would have been better off leaving it well alone.

Elizabeth: The Golden Age is certainly a feast for the eyes. Somewhat incongruously, much of the film is filmed in England's airier, lighter Medieval Catherdrals, and with the beautifully crafted costumes and Cate’s flaming tresses standing out against the pale stone, Shekhar Kapur created several striking tableau. Unfortunately, the production is so poorly conceived that its lusciousness only succeeds in confirming its superficiality.

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