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| marantzo |
 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:12 pm |
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I guess American's just have trouble with English grammar.
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Change it to "THE best," and we're on the same page. See, Wade. you and I can agree sometimes too!!! Just like me and Joe!!!
Complete the sentence and see if you still think you are right, which you are not.
Just like Joe and me agree?....me agree with Joe?...Joe and me agree with each other...or maybe, just maybe, Joe and I agree with each other. Unless you think that "me agree with him" is correct, then it doesn't matter what me say. If the statement is inclusive without any activity, it's correct to say Joe and me. Like, "Nobody else here, just Joe and me."
Of course saying " me and Joe..." is incorrect right off the bat. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:16 pm |
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Quote: In the case of "...like Joe and I," always try removing the "Joe and..." and say "like I." You'll see immediately that "me" is correct.
No it's not. Why don't you try ". ...like I agree with Joe (him)...", or do you prefer, "...like me agree with Joe (him)...."? |
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| whiskeypriest |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:21 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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Quote: I guess American's just have trouble with English grammar. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:29 pm |
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| Punctuation, shmunctuation! |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:53 pm |
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One has to understand the difference between subject and object and how they're used in a sentence.
Subjects require: I, he, she, we, and they. You stays the same for subject or object.
Objects (either direct objects or indirect objects) require: me, him, her, us, and them.
billy is right and has offered the simplest rule.
This is a common mistake, and I've even heard Harvard-educated Al Gore make it.
Gary - you speak French so you must understand the difference between "je" and "moi." Same thing. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:21 pm |
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Mo, I would in most cases defer to your background in grammar, but if you read what Billy wrote:
Change it to "THE best," and we're on the same page. See, Wade. you and I can agree sometimes too!!! Just like me and Joe!!!
You have to agree that the last sentence has to have an understood "do' at the end if it makes any sense to what went before. Or else the sentence..."just like Joe and me" (regardless of Billy's assertion that his order is correct (it's not) could mean anything; that Joe and he are lovers, that Joe and he are communists, that Joe and he are born again Christians, that Joe and he are redheads, etc. etc. So in the context the sentence is "Just like Joe and me do." with the "do" being understood. If you think that that construction is correct I'm afraid that I disagree. To stretch the sentence out to explain exactly what is being said, it would read:
"Just like Joe does and I do." I'm sure you can see how wrong, "Just like Joe does and me do," is.
I may be wrong, but aren't Joe and him both the subjects of the sentence, both sharing the same activity, agreeing. I really don't understand how Billy can be the object in that sentence. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:08 pm |
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marantzo wrote: Mo, I would in most cases defer to your background in grammar, but if you read what Billy wrote:
Change it to "THE best," and we're on the same page. See, Wade. you and I can agree sometimes too!!! Just like me and Joe!!!
You have to agree that the last sentence has to have an understood "do' at the end if it makes any sense to what went before. Or else the sentence..."just like Joe and me" (regardless of Billy's assertion that his order is correct (it's not) could mean anything; that Joe and he are lovers, that Joe and he are communists, that Joe and he are born again Christians, that Joe and he are redheads, etc. etc. So in the context the sentence is "Just like Joe and me do." with the "do" being understood. If you think that that construction is correct I'm afraid that I disagree. To stretch the sentence out to explain exactly what is being said, it would read:
"Just like Joe does and I do." I'm sure you can see how wrong, "Just like Joe does and me do," is.
I may be wrong, but aren't Joe and him both the subjects of the sentence, both sharing the same activity, agreeing. I really don't understand how Billy can be the object in that sentence.
Gary - first of all...I was wrong about French - major brain fart.
But now that you are getting into "like" and "as" territory and are wrong.
It's "like me" (never "like I"). But it's "AS I DO." NOT "like I do." The pronoun following "as" is a subject ("I").
In this case, "as" is a conjunction. The pronoun following it is a subject.
billy will confirm this and probably offer a better explanation. |
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| lady wakasa |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:19 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:59 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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Thanks for the posts billy. I actually looked up the verbage in Chicago Manual of Style sometime ago and remember it from something I was writing in a story.
And yes, if we are to continue this, we should leave room for DVD rental discussions and move this to the Lobby. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:13 pm |
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Mo. yes it should have been "as". Thanks for the correction. What about the rest of my problems with your analysis.
If you answer, I guess it should be in the Lobby. Lady seems bothered by the lack of adherence to the forum standards.
OK, I saw the first Batman today for the umpteenth time and if anything, it just gets better every time. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:16 pm |
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Location: Salt Lake City
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marantzo wrote: OK, I saw the first Batman today for the umpteenth time and if anything, it just gets better every time.
As in 1989 Micheal Keaton/Jack Nicholson top notch movie?
It does get better everytime. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:29 pm |
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chillywilly wrote: marantzo wrote: OK, I saw the first Batman today for the umpteenth time and if anything, it just gets better every time.
As in 1989 Micheal Keaton/Jack Nicholson top notch movie?
It does get better everytime.
Yeah, that's the one I'm talking about. |
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| Rod |
| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:29 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
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Location: Lithgow, Australia
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| I watched Broken Flowers last night. Jim Jarmusch, in his minimalist way, used to be one of the most culturally astute of American directors; by sitting still and paying attention, he rendered his films like wandering through midnight radio stations hearing the ghosts of a thousand influences. Today he's beginning to seem like the character he's made a film about, someone driving along listening strictly to what he wants to listen to. Coffee and Cigarettes, his last film, was an uneven hodgepodge, but it did mark a return to a lithe, experimental argot. Broken Flowers is beige and unfussy. Which is not to say it's negligible, no, it's a breezy little tone poem about a guy who makes some observations about how life and people change but some of us seem destined, in being slightly outside of things, to remain so, in a kind of emotional stasis. Jarmusch here works from a similar starting point to F Scott Fitzgerald's seminal short story "Three Hours Between Planes", one of those pieces we were taught in school as a model of short fiction and has given me a vague distaste for such models ever since. But like the Fitzgerald story, it's about a middle-aged guy who goes searching for an ex-paramour - several, here - and finds memory and time play funny tricks. Except that Jarmusch utterly avoids loud ironies and painful discoveries. It's Don's trip that is urgent, not the lives of the women he's revisiting; they've all settled into strikingly divergent ways of growing old, whilst Don realises his own status as a man who finds himself a peculiar failure. The event that doesn't change your life but offers a hint of new perspective, is the idea here. The film doesn't achieve what it sets out to achieve - it's not a character study, it's not, except in the gorgeous opening credits set to a Greenhornes song, a dreamy grace-note, but nor is it a painful study in dramatic arm-twisting almost any other director would have made it. Bill Murray is once again a haiku of graceful alienation, Sharon Stone and Tilda Swinton offer briefly exact impressions, but that Jeffrey Wright, as the snoopy West Indian neighbour, walks off with the thing, is undeniable, though Alexis Dziena comes close to beating him as a Lolita who's a complete nature child. |
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| Trish |
| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:10 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2438
Location: Massachusetts
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Rod wrote: Trish wrote: watched (re-cut or un-cut can't remember) 1900
Trish;
Here's a link to the review of 1900 I posted on Marilyn's blog last week, if you're at all interested;
http://ferdyonfilms.blogspot.com/
Thanks Rod I'll check it out |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:43 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: AZ
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| What I enjoy most about Broken Flowers, besides Bill Murray looking old and dumbfounded, are the road trips through neighborhoods that look familiar....but I don't know from where or when. |
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