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| billyweeds |
 Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:44 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| Let me just say this: I have never been a particular fan of Heathers. And yet I think Joe's comments on its importance are absolutely on the money. Anyone who misses how racically Heathers affected the movies is indeed dense. Heathers really did announce a seismic shift in consciousness for a whole generation. I vividly remember how my daughter (I think approximately Joe's age) reacted. I couldn't understand it at the time, but I do now. |
Last edited by billyweeds on Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:59 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| By the way, I really dug your McCain comparison. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:20 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Joe -- You've done it. You've made me want to see Heathers!
Whiskey -- I feel I should tell you I stole your Bush joke. I sent to a friend who is going through a particularly rough time. It made his day. So, thanks. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:21 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| I'm still not convinced by arguments for the seminalality of Heathers. I'll accept that it was a marker, an indication that the zietgeist had changed, proof that we had left the world of Top Gun, but to claim that there would have been no Pulp Fiction or no Coens without it is faintly ridiculous. Their antecendents pre-date a so-so, grungy high school movie. |
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I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
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I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:52 am |
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Location: Houston
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Marj wrote: Joe -- You've done it. You've made me want to see Heathers!
I hope you like it. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:20 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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Joe Vitus wrote: Marj wrote: Joe -- You've done it. You've made me want to see Heathers!
I hope you like it.
I hope she likes it too, but even if she doesn't it remains a seminal film. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:53 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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billyweeds wrote: Joe Vitus wrote: Marj wrote: Joe -- You've done it. You've made me want to see Heathers!
I hope you like it.
I hope she likes it too, but even if she doesn't it remains a seminal film.
This is true, Joe. My liking it or not won't change its importance in the grand scheme of things.
Besides I'm not sure how soon it will be before I get to see it. But it's in my queue. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:35 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| Marj--Finally saw The Notorious Bettie Page. You were right--not only is Gretchen Mol simply enchanting in the role, but the movie itself is a delightfully original kind of biopic. I quite loved it. In a less actress-happy year, Mol would definitely rate a nomination, and Mary Harmon is a terrific director. Also liked Lili Taylor's supporting performance. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:19 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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| The Bettie Page flick is a shallow and sanitized bore. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:23 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| Marj encouraged me over a month ago to see Betty Paige, and I've been lazy. Will rent ASAP. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:28 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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joe, you keep misspelling bettie page. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:58 am |
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Location: Houston
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| Have I ever spelled it before? But in any case, you're right to point it out. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:16 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: to claim that there would have been no Pulp Fiction or no Coens without it is faintly ridiculous.
more than faintly ridiculous. More like absolutely wrong.. HEATHERS may seem groundbreaking to anyone who hasn't seen A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, LOLITA,
IF, LES ENFANTS TERRIBLE, THE MOTHER AND THE WHORE, SCUM, TRASH, RIVER'S EDGE, TEX...
HEATHERS was released in 1989. The Coen Brother's debut BLOOD SIMPLE came out in 1984. The Coen's RAISING ARIZONA was released in 1987. So who the fuck influenced who? |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:17 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: Have I ever spelled it before?
yes. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:19 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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Glad to see that Marc is back in his feistiest form, though he's wrong.
To call The Notorious Bettie Page sanitized, shallow, and a bore is to be looking for a different movie and IMO a far less interesting one. The charm and originality of the movie, which is already growing in my estimation by leaps and bounds only hours after viewing, is in its view of the world through Bettie's eyes. She's an innocent who sees no harm in posing for these "pornographic" pictures, who sees no harm in getting nude, and in fact is exactly what Bunny Yeager (Studio 60's Sarah Paulson) says she is--someone who makes nudity seem totally natural.
Marc seems to want a sex show. True, that's not what Mary Harmon has created. Harmon has gone way more profound and memorable. It's a unique movie, one to which time will be extraordinarily kind. I am already considering putting Gretchen Mol on my short list for a Blanche nomination. Mol is truly phenomenal, much more interesting than Helen Mirren, for instance.
The supporting cast is chock full of fascinating cameos. In addition to Lili Taylor and Paulson, there's Austin Pendleton, whose eccentricity has rarely been used so effectively, Jared Harris, whose Britishness informs his character in a strange and intriguing way, and David Straithairn, whose Estes Kefauver is at least as excellent as his blander Edward R. Murrow. Straithairn is an amazing chameleon. Compare his work here with The River Wild and Dolores Claiborne and his guest star shot as Carmela's extracurricular squeeze on The Sopranos and marvel at a superb character actor.
But enough about them. The Notorious Bettie Page is the farthest thing from a shallow bore, and Gretchen Mol is a goddess. |
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