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| inlareviewer |
 Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:20 pm |
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Joined: 05 Jul 2004
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Location: Lawrence, KS
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billyweeds wrote: Well, inla, I will say you've made me appreciate Anne Baxter as Eve more than I thought possible. But I still ache to see the same movie with Audrey as Gertrude--Roman Holiday transforming into Two for the Road. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:46 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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inlareviewer wrote: billyweeds wrote: Well, inla, I will say you've made me appreciate Anne Baxter as Eve more than I thought possible. But I still ache to see the same movie with Audrey as Gertrude--Roman Holiday transforming into Two for the Road. Oh, billy, you mensch. I didn't reach that conclusion until after several repeat viewings. And I would pay megabucks to see Audrey Hepburn in that part....opposite, oh, I dunno, Katharine Hepburn's Margo...tee-hee.
You may not have seen AAE as many times as I have. I'm older than you are and I own it (sans the Staggnotes, thank heavens). |
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| inlareviewer |
| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:57 pm |
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billyweeds wrote:
You may not have seen AAE as many times as I have. I'm older than you are and I own it (sans the Staggnotes, thank heavens). |
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"And take extra care with strangers/Even flowers have their dangers/And though scary is exciting/Nice is different than good." --Stephen Sondheim |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:02 pm |
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billyweeds wrote: Well, inla, I will say you've made me appreciate Anne Baxter as Eve more than I thought possible. But I still ache to see the same movie with Audrey as Gertrude--Roman Holiday transforming into Two for the Road.
I still would have loved to see a really good actor in that role. Baxter chewed way too much scenery for me. Even Audrey who isn't that great an actress would have at least been more natural in the part.
And I never thought it was supposed to be a total surprise. Inla described it perfectly. You did, my dear. The best surprise was saved for the last shot when Eve see's another young actress preparing to follow in her own footsteps. Superb ending.
Inla - Why do you think Monty Clift would have been so wrong as Joe Gillis. I think he would have been wonderful. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:17 pm |
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Marj wrote: billyweeds wrote: Well, inla, I will say you've made me appreciate Anne Baxter as Eve more than I thought possible. But I still ache to see the same movie with Audrey as Gertrude--Roman Holiday transforming into Two for the Road.
I still would have loved to see a really good actor in that role. Baxter chewed way too much scenery for me. Even Audrey who isn't that great an actress would have at least been more natural in the part.
And I never thought it was supposed to be a total surprise. Inla described it perfectly. You did, my dear. The best surprise was saved for the last shot when Eve see's another young actress preparing to follow in her own footsteps. Superb ending.
Inla - Why do you think Monty Clift would have been so wrong as Joe Gillis. I think he would have been wonderful.
I didn't get the feeling inla thought Monty would be wrong, just very different. I think I preferred what Holden did with the role to what I imagine the more introspective Clift would have done. Holden just played the purple dialogue right out there. I can't help but think Clift would have implicitly apologized for it, or asked Wilder to change it and either had problems with Billy or quit or been fired. |
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| inlareviewer |
| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:31 pm |
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Joined: 05 Jul 2004
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Marj wrote: billyweeds wrote: Well, inla, I will say you've made me appreciate Anne Baxter as Eve more than I thought possible. But I still ache to see the same movie with Audrey as Gertrude--Roman Holiday transforming into Two for the Road.
I still would have loved to see a really good actor in that role. Baxter chewed way too much scenery for me. Even Audrey who isn't that great an actress would have at least been more natural in the part.
And I never thought it was supposed to be a total surprise. Inla described it perfectly. You did, my dear. The best surprise was saved for the last shot when Eve see's another young actress preparing to follow in her own footsteps. Superb ending.
Inla - Why do you think Monty Clift would have been so wrong as Joe Gillis. I think he would have been wonderful.
Marj, mon fleur, merci beaucoups. I adore the ending of Everything Concerning Gertrude -- the look on Barbara Bates' face as she contemplates the statue is sublime, though Eve isn't in the room, or Phoebe (she calls herself Phoebe. And why not?) wouldn't dare don the Eve-ning cape and brandish the Sarah Siddons Award in front of an eternity of mirrored climbers. That would defeat her plans to escape from Erasmus Hall to Hollywood, no doubt by encouraging Eve's Sapphic side and keeping her drunk, tee-hee. Subjective taste aside, I think that if the actress playing the title role was wholly natural in the part, then she wouldn't be Gertrude Schlessinski, er, Eve Harrington. Who is never natural, because she is always playing a constructed role. Also, she has an award where her heart ought to be. To me, it's all in Addison's assessment of her insatiable ambition, inability to love and be loved, and talent, in the New Haven hotel room at the climax. (The grand irony of her trek from "Hollywood, you mustn't stay.. there" to Bill in the dressing room to her acceptance speech's "Although it is true that I am going to Hollywood next week to make a motion picture..", always makes me hoot). Being natural, even when largest-than life, which comes naturally to her, is the narrative function of Margo Channing, a great Star, a true Star, from her quite unexpected childhood nude scene in Midsummer Night's Dream onward, and every bit the temperamental, loyal, big-hearted human being offstage that illuminates her characters onstage. One actress conceals herself because there's no there there, the other reveals herself because there's so much there there. Both of them Stars, one through calculated treachery, amorality, combative instinct and her honed technique, the other one through generosity, honesty, emotional instinct and her ripe humanity. And, by the stalled-car scene's dated pre-feminism standards, only one of them is a Woman. Slow curtain. The end.
What billy said about the Clift note "(one can only speculate what might have been had Montgomery Clift not turned down that role)."
He would have been great, we can only guess as to what the movie would have been with his sensitivities at play. Too bad he didn't care for Wilder's approach, didn't particularly want to work with Gloria Swanson, and that the screenplay struck too close to his relationship with the older Libby Holman for his comfort levels. What might have been, indeed, though, as with Claudette Colbert playing Margo, it would have been an entirely different film in tone and tenor. Not better, not worse, just different. And I also love the last shot of that one -- Swanson's eye-flare just as the dissolve takes is hairraising. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:14 pm |
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Quote: Marj, mon fleur, subjective taste aside, if the actress playing the role was natural in the part, then she wouldn't be Gertrude Schlessinski, who is never natural, because she has an award where her heart ought to be.
But, but , but, imagine an actress who is this person and didn't scream it to the rooftops!
And when I meant natural I was referring to her innocent look. Audrey's I mean. And that might have given her a leg up as she wouldn't have to have had to "play" innocent. Could Audrey have pulled off the duplicity of the character? I would have loved to have seen her have the opportunity. In fact I'd love to see just about anyone else have the opportunty. I give you that this is a terribly difficult role for any actor. And that's just because Eve is so duplitious with everyone. But I still say any good actor could have done a far better job than Baxter.
Quote: He would have been great, we can only guess as to what the movie would have been with his sensitivities at play. Too bad he didn't care for Wilder's approach, didn't particularly want to work with Gloria Swanson, and that the screenplay struck too close to his relationship with the older Libby Holman for his comfort levels. What might have been, indeed, though, as with Claudette Colbert playing Margo, it would have been an entirely different film in tone and tenor.
Fascinating Inla. I didn't know about all of this. Just was told there were scheduling conflicts so MC had to back out of the role. Of course, isn't that what they always say? I knew he was close to Liz Taylor but not Libby Holman. Nor about his disdain for Wilder's approach. What might have been, indeed. |
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| inlareviewer |
| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:38 pm |
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| It's all so subjective. |
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"And take extra care with strangers/Even flowers have their dangers/And though scary is exciting/Nice is different than good." --Stephen Sondheim |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:10 pm |
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Tis true. But there can be no arguement about one thing:
Billy is ageless!! |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:18 am |
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Location: AZ
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Watched Disc 2 of The Best of Person to Person: Hollywood Legends. Very interesting to get the 50's perspective on some things.
Thoughts:
Marlon Brando saying he enjoyed playing "song and dance"/jester parts, introducing his troublesome father as "My Pop".
Charleton Heston talking about Moses being a character that Muslims, Christians, and Jews could all relate to.
Paul Newman looking so much like Matthew McCaughnahey (sp?). He and Joanne being the most natural in front of the camera......and the happiest couple.
Marilyn Monroe seeming so insecure and out of place. They said she spent 5 hours putting on her makeup for the interview. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:05 pm |
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| I was watching Abe Lincoln in Illinois last night. Raymond Massey was Mr. Lincoln. I was struck by the very last scene. Abe had boarded the train to Washington and stood at the rear of the train bidding his farewell to the crowd in Springfield. The train slowly pulls away into a cloud of smoke coming from the engine, and the way the scene is lit, it is as if the train is carrying Abraham Lincoln into Hell, which, of course, it was. Not subtle but very striking, and it wouldn't have worked nearly as well in color. |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:37 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
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Syd wrote: ......The train slowly pulls away into a cloud of smoke coming from the engine, and the way the scene is lit, it is as if the train is carrying Abraham Lincoln into Hell, which, of course, it was... |
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| grace |
| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:45 pm |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
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| A while back there was a little discussion of Ace in the Hole/The Big Carnival, a Billy Wilder film starring Kirk Douglas. If anyone's interested, it's on TCM overnight tonight. In my time zone (East Coast, if it makes a difference) it's on from 2:30am-4:30am. At least, that's what it says on my TV Guide thingy. |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:53 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
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Location: SF Bay Area
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Ballets Russes is an extraordinary film; a documentary loaded with hope, vision, humor. love, pathos, jealousy, disappointment, and spiritual fulfillment.
It's an ensemble spanning fifty years, all comprised of people who never seem to have waisted a moment. To see them in their last years still living every moment is a rapturous joy, and a lesson. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:14 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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grace wrote: A while back there was a little discussion of Ace in the Hole/The Big Carnival, a Billy Wilder film starring Kirk Douglas. If anyone's interested, it's on TCM overnight tonight. In my time zone (East Coast, if it makes a difference) it's on from 2:30am-4:30am. At least, that's what it says on my TV Guide thingy.
Preceding Ace in the Hole is Lonely Are the Brave, which is my nomination for Kirk Douglas's screen peak and also for best western of the 1960s. It's an amazing movie. If you've never seen it, please do whatever you can to see it. IMO it's a better film than Ace in the Hole, which wears its cynicism a little too blatantly on its sleeve. |
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