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| marantzo |
 Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:53 am |
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| What it comes down to is that the Dems were so obssessed with making a statement about the evils of the war in Iraq that they lost sight of the fact that they were ousting an admired and senior representative from their own party. If I remember correctly, Leiberman was ahead in the polls right out of the gate. And it sure seems to me that it was his constituents that elected him. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:09 pm |
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I just looked at an electoral map and in the Senate, House and Governors races, the Republicans did not make one gain. Has that ever happened. I mean you'd figure that at least one congressional seat would have switched hands in their favour. Or maybe a Governor.
Not one. I love it. |
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| grace |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:13 pm |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
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I'm not saying this is a hostile place to discuss politics. I am saying that I generally stay away from discussing politics because it's very seldom that minds get changed, or even opened up a little. Including mine. People (including me) get so caught up in proving themselves right that they don't listen to the opposing argument and nothing is solved, no middle ground is reached, etc. People just become entrenched.
In the Democratic primary in August, Joe was ousted by the registered Democratic voters in Connecticut.
Last night, he was elected by some Democrats, I don't know how many independents (the largest group of registered voters in CT), and a whole bunch of Republicans who love Joe. He might as well be a Republican.
The Republican candidate, Alan Schlesinger -- by the way, the candidate whose party really turned on him -- experienced a last-minute surge and got 9-10% of the vote. During the polls, he'd been getting about 4% but he did pretty well in some debates.
I still find the country club thing hard to believe -- that is, I find it hard to believe it didn't come up during the races. And it's such an easy thing to say about someone from Greenwich, with the whole lockjaw-Caddyshack image thing.
For what it's worth, Lamont has been working with inner city high school kids for years -- before he ever threw the hat in the ring -- so if he did belong to an all-white club (which may be the only kind of country club you'll find down there anyway), he at least balanced out the bad deed with a good one.
Yes, Joe ran a dirty campaign. Nancy Johnson ran a dirtier one, but Joe's was very ugly and loaded with cheap shots. Call me prejudiced -- though I hadn't made my mind up who to vote for until about last weekend -- but Lamont ran a hard-hitting, but clean campaign by comparison. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:18 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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Lieberman has always come across to me as someone who will side with whoever just to remain on the side of those with power. Hillary Clinton is doing the same thing, which I find pretty out of place.
Back to Lieberman, with him now being an Independent, it doesn't help the majority in the senate for the Dems. He may say he will vote with the Democrats, but when it comes to the actual head count, he did more harm towards a Dem majority.
He was the only thing I didn't like about the Gore 2000 ticket. I would have much preferred someone else as a running mate. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| dlhavard |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:21 pm |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
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Location: Detroit (where the slow are run over)
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Quote: last but not least, confiscating all the guns in America and forcing the hunters to buy there meat at the supermarket.
Well, in Michigan we DID ban hunters from using morning doves for target practice.
They still have their guns though.
Ah, the hunters, not the doves. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:22 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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grace wrote: Gotta say I'm not feeling so great about last night -- we've got Joe Lieberman for another six years. Sigh.
What's interesting to me about this is that the general line has run that the country's frustration with Iraq led to the massive switch, but Lieberman and Hillary are both very pro-war (he more so, ideologically, than her) and they won big.
So I'm not sure that's what this is about. Or, it's not entirely what it's about. |
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| grace |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:27 pm |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
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Quote: They still have their guns though.
Ah, the hunters, not the doves.
If they gave guns to the doves, though, at least things would be evened up a little. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:28 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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marantzo wrote: I just looked at an electoral map and in the Senate, House and Governors races, the Republicans did not make one gain. Has that ever happened. I mean you'd figure that at least one congressional seat would have switched hands in their favour. Or maybe a Governor.
Not one. I love it.
I don't know if that's happened before or not. I know some of the articles I've read this morning are saying how this is an exact opposite of what happend in 1994 when the GOP took over congress after 40 years of Dem control. The last 12 years have not been good for this country, congressionally speaking. It will be good to get some balance back and see what kind of progress we can make in the next two years that Bush is still in office. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:29 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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grace wrote: Marantzo, call Joe L. what you will, but he was a Democrat in name only while he was a Democrat.
Well, he's still a Democrat. He went Independant to run. He's returning to the party when he takes office, he's said so (his win was taken from the start to indicate a further step towards regaining the House).
Quote: And I'm beginning to remember why I don't generally discuss politics...
I know what you mean, and agree with your later post as well. As someone who as often falls on the right as the left side of the argument, I can vouch for the discomfort in expressing opposite opinions around here. But I like to see people explaining why they do/don't support a candidate/political opinion. Not in an effort on my part to sway them (or to think that my explanations will alter anyone's opinion, either), but I like to understand what leads people to the conclusions they reach. I can generally respect any opinion if the reasoning behind it is explained to me. |
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| grace |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:38 pm |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
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(re Joe Lieberman) Quote: He's returning to the party when he takes office, he's said so
Which irritates quite a few Democrats I know -- they take it as a further sign of his arrogance and "do anything to get elected" mentality. As I believe Marc noted, he's a politician, out for himself. That pretty much says it all.
I'm all for voting your conscience and doing what you think is right for your state, versus right for your personal gain; so if Joe doesn't always vote with the Democrats, so be it. But IIRC his record is something like 65% of voting with Bush/the Republicans. And if that's where your conscience lies 65% of the time, why not just become a Republican? |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:41 pm |
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I think the core of the opposition to the war is not an overwhelming digust that you went to war with Iraq but that it was handled so poorly that it has cost America far too much in men and money. Never mind the corrupt contract grabbing cronies and the shortchanging of the troops. Even hard core supporters of the war are appalled at the incompetence of the strategy of the commander in chief and his circle. The ill-informed, as it turned out, certainty that there were WMD in Iraq sure changed a lot of people's minds about the war, but by that time it was too late to have a quick fix without terrible reprocussions.
Let's face it, good or bad, Bush is completely unqualified to be running any war. He has the imagination of a slug and the flexibility and judgement of a bullet. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:46 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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Joe Vitus wrote: Well, he's still a Democrat. He went Independant to run. He's returning to the party when he takes office, he's said so (his win was taken from the start to indicate a further step towards regaining the House).
I didn't know this. Although, with the number of republicans that voted for him, I wonder how the switch will resonate with them. |
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"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:51 pm |
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First of all he said that he will be joining the Dem caucus, that is the only way he can retain his seniority.
Unless re-counts change a couple of results, the Democrats have a majority in the Senate.
Rumsfeld has just stepped down.
The house of cards has truly fallen. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:02 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12890
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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marantzo wrote: I just looked at an electoral map and in the Senate, House and Governors races, the Republicans did not make one gain. Has that ever happened. I mean you'd figure that at least one congressional seat would have switched hands in their favour. Or maybe a Governor.
Not one. I love it.
I believe it's a historic first. |
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| grace |
| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:02 pm |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
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Quote: Rumsfeld has just stepped down.
Is that a joke? I can't find anything on it. (call me gullible...) |
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