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Mr. Brownstone
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:27 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 2450
bart:

"Carnivory: meat, if you grow up with it, is what shrinks call a comfort food. Most of the stuff about, "I stopped eating meat and I got weaker and/or ached in my joints and/or psoriasis [etc.]" is really a head thing..."

Um. No. You couldn't be more wrong.

The reason people feel weaker when they stop eating meat is because they are. They reduce the levels of protein, amino acids, and in the case of red meats, creatine, in their system. All of these are necessary to maintain and, under a proper resistance training program, increase, your skeletal muscle, the presence and function of which dictates strength & hypertrophy.

I pretty much follow the same principles as marc.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:03 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
For what it's woeth, last night's veal was a little stringy. I believe they may have let the calf shuffle his feet a time or two. I hate it when that happens.

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marantzo
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:11 am Reply with quote
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My Sirloin Tip roast was very good last night. As you probably know ST can be pretty tough and though I like chewy meat, it is often a bit too chewy. Last night's was just right. I had corn with it that was made delicious by the wonderful people at Monsanto.I accompanied my meal with a nice red Cab from Chile that was the product of fine Cabernet grapes stomped on by hundreds of 6 year old South American Indian girls.
whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:14 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
You know whatís wrong with free range meats? Imagine the poor bull, out in the field, loving life, enjoying the sun, flirting with the cows, and then suddenly, hauled off to the abattoir! "No, no, no!" The bull screams, "I was just starting to enjoy the ineffable sweetness of life!" But to no avail; the brutality of his death brings the dream of life to a painful, horrid, abhorred end. "Let me live! Let me live! Let me...aaaaaarcgh!" he bellows as the monsterous darkness approaches.

Meanwhile, some calf has been held in a narrow pen without even room to turn, its entire life, fed nothing but milk, never allowed to move, never allowed to roam, never allowed to even see the sun. In short, the calf longs for death to put an end to the miserable existence. For him, the abattoir is a mercy, an act of pity, an end to the horror of life.

Tell me, which meets the crueler fate?

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grace
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:24 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 3198
Maybe, but you are what you eat. And when you eat veal, you're eating a life of pain, misery and deprivation. Not to mention that milk-fed veal doesn't necessarily mean the little guy is getting his mom's milk. It's more likely he's getting the bovine equivalent of formula, chock full of antibiotics and other neat chemicals. Which means that that's what you're eating.

Whereas if you eat organic, free-range critters, at least they had a shot at enjoying life, and you're eating sunshine, grass, and good stuff. Not to mention the occasional roll in the mud.

However, now that it's fashionable to eat organic, and the huge corporations have realized there is money to be made in that market, the USDA is looking at "revising" organic standards. Which means that soon, since the government seems to work for those big corporations, organic will mean nothing at all; and if I want well-fed, well-cared for beef, I'll have to cram a cow into my condo's finished basement. Hope the horse doesn't mind.
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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:30 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
marantzo wrote:
My Sirloin Tip roast was very good last night. As you probably know ST can be pretty tough and though I like chewy meat, it is often a bit too chewy. Last night's was just right. I had corn with it that was made delicious by the wonderful people at Monsanto.I accompanied my meal with a nice red Cab from Chile that was the product of fine Cabernet grapes stomped on by hundreds of 6 year old South American Indian girls.
How horrible! Don't you realize that the cab grapes are grown in complete captivity, and plucked from the vine while still alive? That's why I drink nothing but tokaj, and other wines where the grapes start to rot before they are plucked.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:44 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
You vegetarians, so meatcentric. Care you nothing for the feelings of the vegetables you so heartlessly yank from their comfortable, albeit dirty, beds? Have you ever considered their slow death from starvation after you pull them from their source of nutrition? Or worse, barely alive, gasping for water, you freeze them or eviscerate them and shove them in cans!

And how are they raised? Do they get to wander about, feel the sun on their roots, take the air with friends? No - a veal calf has more freedom.

So, stow your smug superiority, your cruelty to God's own vegetables shows you for the hypocrits you are!

And don't get me started on the microbes whose cruel fate it is to make milk cheese!

Wonder if BK Chicken Fries are made from free range chickens. Should I ask at the drive through?

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:55 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
Ah yes Ė Restaurant at the End of the Universe. Where a cow-like creature had been bred to abhor life and long for death so that the diners could eat without guilt. Arthur Dent, appalled, attempts to order a green salad, only to be informed by the cow-like creature that vegetables are quite adamant about their objection to being eaten. He opts for a glass of water; Ford, Zaphod and Trillian order steaks. Very good, the cow-like creature says, Iíll just nip off and shoot myself then. I knew I wasnít being original here.

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grace
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:57 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 3198
I eat meat on occasion. It's just (formerly) happy meat.

Quote:
And how are they raised? Do they get to wander about, feel the sun on their roots, take the air with friends?

The pumpkins and butternut are threatening to take over the place! If they ever team up with the nasturtiums, we're done for.

You want cruelty to vegetables? I sing in the garden. I think it makes them grow faster, trying to grow large enough to break down the fence. Yes, I fence them in because I'm just....that....mean.

Saturday, we'll be savagely ripping two rows of potatoes from their nice, quiet peaceful underground life. You don't mess with the graces.
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bart
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:00 am Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 2381 Location: Lincoln NE
Man, everyone's got an angle on this meat thing. Like I said, I keep eating stuff that tastes good and Brownie shouldn't worry about my skeletal muscles as I'm not a vegan and I get some cheese and milk in there, plus a ton of beans, nuts and whole grains and so on. Plus a big bucket of KFC every other weekend, with a quart of lard on the side for dippin'.

Whisky, I remember Oilcan used to make that "screaming vegetables" joke all the time this came up. I guess only the Fruitarians can manage to eat without killing, in your metaphysical scenario.

Marc, there's nothing like an honest man. You went back to meat because you like meat. Sounds like you weighed the ethics and were okay with it. I figure a meal is not the time for an inner tug-of-war, so I'm happy for anyone who knows where they stand on this whole issue. Bon appetit!

I actually don't have a big ethical issue about all this. I tend to think animals are not much for abstract thought or contemplating their lot in life or future demise. Nature is red in tooth and claw, and I have no conviction that free-range cattle lead diminished lives because there's a stungun waiting at the end of it instead of a cougar.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:10 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
bart -

You liken me to oilcan? Them's fighting words!

I never worry about the ethics of eating meat. I always figured that if cattle had the power (and were omnivours) they'd be pen raising us, so screw 'em.

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grace
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:17 am Reply with quote
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 3198
By the way, happy belated or in advance birthday, whiskeypriest (and all other September babies, too).

When I dine at the in-laws, this happens all the time: They're chowing down on a prime rib or pork roast or something and begin reminiscing about meats they've eaten in the past. There's one aunt who (and I'm being serious) can be relied on to say "Do you remember that veal we had at x's wedding? That was a really good veal." And everyone adds in their "uh-huhs" and "mmm"s. That wedding was in the 70s, IIRC. It's a surreal scene (to me, anyway) that is recreated over and over again at the big family dinners.

Sorry, just had to get that one out of my brain. Now -- on to Paris Hilton's DUI arrest....
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bart
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:18 am Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 2381 Location: Lincoln NE
Whisky, you are not similar to Oilcan in your Net demeanor, beyond that both you and he are sometimes prone to express yourselves with a certain mock-serious tone. A tone to which I am no stranger myself. I was simply noting my appreciation of a good joke that both you and he have independently arrived at and chosen to share with the larger world.

Now go and calm your cabbages, for they are in need of a kind word and perhaps some reassurance that the rabbit-fence is intact. Hopefully, they will not see into your dark herbivorous plans for the future.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:21 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
bart wrote:
Whisky, you are not similar to Oilcan in your Net demeanor, beyond that both you and he are sometimes prone to express yourselves with a certain mock-serious tone. A tone to which I am no stranger myself. I was simply noting my appreciation of a good joke that both you and he have independently arrived at and chosen to share with the larger world.

Now go and calm your cabbages, for they are in need of a kind word and perhaps some reassurance that the rabbit-fence is intact. Hopefully, they will not see into your dark herbivorous plans for the future.

Odd you should mention cabbages. My wife is home, making galubkes. Mmmmm. Cabbage, pork, beef, rice, tomatoes for the sauce! Oh, oh, the carnage!

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
grace wrote:
By the way, happy belated or in advance birthday, whiskeypriest (and all other September babies, too).

When I dine at the in-laws, this happens all the time: They're chowing down on a prime rib or pork roast or something and begin reminiscing about meats they've eaten in the past. There's one aunt who (and I'm being serious) can be relied on to say "Do you remember that veal we had at x's wedding? That was a really good veal." And everyone adds in their "uh-huhs" and "mmm"s. That wedding was in the 70s, IIRC. It's a surreal scene (to me, anyway) that is recreated over and over again at the big family dinners.

Sorry, just had to get that one out of my brain. Now -- on to Paris Hilton's DUI arrest....
Odd. There's often one or two meals you can never forget. For me, there was this, well, chicken pie baked in a gouda cheese round I had in a little restaurant in Oranjstaad on my honeymoon, and some pork back barbecue I had at a roadside stand in some indeterminate point between Malbork and Bialystok, Poland in 1997. Every so often, I'll tell my wife, remember that time...

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