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| tirebiter |
 Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:51 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: not far away
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I saw Top Secret! in a preview and liked it better than Airplane! (which is saying something), and I thought Kilmer was a scream. His career has been a disappointment, but he's done some interesting things, along the way annoying a lot of people by his behavior, from what I hear.
I too liked Kiss Kiss Bang Bang a lot: a cheerful evisceration of something that should have been killed long ago. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:13 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| I think Val Kilmer is at his best in not-for-laughs-comedy. His Doc Holliday in Wyatt Earp (or was it Tombstone) was a great comic turn. And I thought Kiss Kiss Bang Bang was underrated. In some ways it worked better for starring two out of fashion actors rather than stars with an image to maintain. |
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| Earl |
| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:24 am |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2004
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Location: Houston
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mo_flixx wrote: Earl wrote: lshap wrote: Who knew that Val Kilmer could play funny?
Anyone who saw Real Genius.
Come on....he was hysterical in his first role, that spy movie!!
I had forgotten about that one and you're right, he was hysterical. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:27 pm |
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I forgot about "Top Secret", and you're right - Kilmer was good. The film, however, struck me as hopelessly cheesy.
Jeremy - I wouldn't exactly call Kilmer's turn as Doc Holliday 'comic', but I would call it the best supporting role of the year. He was stellar, and more to the point, it was one of those parts that obligates an actor to really 'act' rather than riff on his own personality. In other words, it was clear to me that the Doc Holliday portrayed in "Tombstone" was created, layer by layer, by Kilmer, and wasn't some direct extension of newsreel footage or Kilmer's fast-twitch acting quirks. The performance was unique and true to the period (as far as I know). He took a character whose actual mannerisms we've never seen, gave him a body and voice, and simply blew the rest of the cast off the screen.
Yeah, I know, every actor's supposed to do this degree of work with every role every time, but I'd say Kilmer's success in "Tombstone" was the equivalent of a hitter coming to the plate and banging out homerun after homerun for two hours. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:14 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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| TOP SECRET was the one I was trying to think of earlier (but couldn't) with the cow (that's always how I remembered that film) |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:44 pm |
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Lorne -
Couldn't agree more. Kilmer's performance in Tombstone is always a joy, and is especially remarkable considering how incompetent most of the rest of the film is. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:19 pm |
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Add me to the list of Kilmer in Tombstone fans.
Hey brownstone. Good to see you. |
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"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:59 pm |
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Nice to have you back, Tim.
I haven't seen Tombstone in way too long to talk much about its quality. I remember liking the gay subtext with the actor and...whoever he had the subtext with (that's how long it's been since I saw it). And Mrs. Earp being an addict. But it seemed not very exciting and very low on atmosphere.
On the other hand, Kilmer's performance still stands out in my mind as a very good one. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:53 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| By calling Kilmer's Doc Holliday comic, I did not mean it to sound dismissive, rather that he gave a big performance that was fun to watch. I also think it was a little knowing; he couldn't help but look at the camera a tad more than he ought, perhaps trying to catch his reflection or receive some affirmation from an unseen audience. |
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I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:43 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Thanks, Joe (and chills again!):
I don't think you're dismissing Kilmer's performance at all by calling it comic; he's incredibly funny, especially in the card game where Ike accuses him of cheating: "Why, Ike... (drunken pause) whatever do you mean?"
There's apparently a director's cut version of Tombstone that more thoroughly explains Jason Priestly's character's love for Billy Zane's character, but it's just sort of a "who gives a fuck?" subplot.
Really, the only thing I care about is watching Doc Holliday and Johnny Ringo dance with each other, and Wyatt Earp mow down a bunch of cowboys.
(This brings to mind the film's unintentionally funniest moment, when Kurt Russell inexplicably starts muttering, "No!" and wades into the stream to kill everyone. Why exactly he's saying "No!" and not something else, like, "I'm gonna kill you all you motherfuckers!" or "I'm Wyatt fucking Earp, bitchez!" is not clear, but it became a hilarious moment amongst my frat buddies, in which he would commit random acts of gentle violence against each other, like repeatedly throwing toilet paper at someone, while shouting "No!" for no particular reason.)
Why do I give a shit if Kurt Russell's wife is a drug addict, or even less interesting, he's having an unconsummated affair with the China Beach chick, or Jason Priestly is gay?
Bring on the shootin'! |
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| shannon |
| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:56 am |
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Location: NC
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| Watched maybe an hour of CSA: Confederate States of America the other night, a film that hypothesizes an America if the Union lost the Civil War and slavery still existed today. I turned it off. It wasn't really that funny and I felt like I'd gotten all that it had to say after 15 minutes. The film tries to make the point that our America isn't that dissimilar from the fictional America in the film. I mean, I guess so, but when a film like this is made by a black man who also happens to be a professor at the University of Kansas, how valid can this point be? Still, if it'd been funny, it would've worked. But as it stands, your time will probably be better spent watching Bamboozled again than slogging through this. |
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| Ghulam |
| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:53 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4742
Location: Upstate NY
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| The Taiwanese movie Yi yi (2000) directed by Edward Yang takes us int a family of a middle-aged middle class man and shows us their everyday humdrum goings on, with an elderly mother going into a coma, the business problems of the breadwinner, a complicated love affair of the daughter, the man's flame from the schooldays married to an American returning to Taipei to revive some unresolved issues. It is three memorable hours of real life situations. It has a superficial semblance to a soap opera, but it has depth and sensitivity. The pace is slow, the camera usually static with a preference for distant shots. It is a moving and engrossing movie. |
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| lady wakasa |
| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:16 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
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C.S.A: I thought it was more *ouch* than funny; that it was an interesting combination of effects (Ken Burns documentary / commercial tv / cable broadcast, etc) although it sometimes overdid its points (Bamboozled is a better film); but
shannon wrote: The film tries to make the point that our America isn't that dissimilar from the fictional America in the film. I mean, I guess so, but when a film like this is made by a black man who also happens to be a professor at the University of Kansas, how valid can this point be?
isn't necessarily contradictory or invalid.
Counterexample: I was an economics major in college. The dept had a number of economists (I want to say 75, but I don't remember); they also had two Marxists. (This isn't about the validity of Marixst economics; this was during the Cold War and anyone interested in going into any sort of security studies needed to have some understanding of Communist thought.) One was there because the school wanted to say they covered all manifestations of economics; the other switched to Marxist economic theory after getting the position. Doesn't mean either of them would ever seriously be considered for advancement, tenure, etc; one was a token and the other snuck in.
There are plenty of women who could tell you about being the only woman on staff or about the glass ceiling, as well.
So I don't know anything about the University of Kansas, but I wouldn't say that his position alone proves that Willmott's situation is perfect, either. |
Last edited by lady wakasa on Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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| lady wakasa |
| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:20 am |
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| And Yi Yi is an excellent film. I hope that Criterion did it justice (which I expect they did). |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:58 am |
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lady wakasa wrote: And Yi Yi is an excellent film. I hope that Criterion did it justice (which I expect they did).
The version I saw had a pretty good director's commentary. He was very excited about his use of reflections for some reason.
The film itself is one of my favorites. |
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