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| Joe Vitus |
 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:30 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Billy,
Smacks of conspiracy theory? Not like that's ever caused Obama any problems in the past or anything, right? Not like it's another weapon for his antagonists to use against him and persuade people not to vote for him or anything?
Is this method of eradicating traces of Bin Laden confidence in the voters, or hubris?
Gary,
But isn't the Canadian conservative party the equivalent of the American "Left-Wing-Gay-Commie-Free Love" party? (A joke swiped from Jon Stewart). |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:10 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12944
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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The body has to be buried in 24 hours according to Islam, and desecrating the corpse would make him more of a martyr. They're pushing it a bit by burying him at sea, although they did it for sound reasons.
As for not publicizing photographs, people have forgot the fuss when photographs of the corpses of Saddam Hussein's sons were published. The Obama administration is playing this very carefully. |
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Rocky Laocoon foretold of Troy's doom, only to find snaky water. They pulled him in and Rocky can't swim. Now Rocky wishes he were an otter! |
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| daffy |
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:13 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Wall Street
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Joe Vitus wrote: Not just anti-Obamas. My students find this sudden event, so close to a re-election, and no body for proof, very questionable
Joe - Do your students about Bush, Sr? Explain to them how his numbers were through the roof right after Gulf I, with only a bit longer before his attempt at re-election than Obama faces, and then explain what happened to him: A split party and "It's the economy, Stupid" (sound familiar?) and the rest, including GHWB, is history. They need to recognize that a lot can & will happen between now and Nov. 2012 and Obama & co. know that; they're quite smart. Unless the economy gets better over the next 18 months (and there is no reason to think it will) Obama's numbers will go back down and surely he knows it. Your students should recognize this and know there's way too much time left for this to be an attempt to get votes.
Of course, if they don't want to believe it, they won't.
Joe Vitus wrote: It's much closer to re-election than his first inauguration, so the argument that we're close to his run for a second term isn't as misguided as you think.
It may be closer than his inauguration, but it's still a long ways off.
Joe Vitus wrote: But you're still missing my point, Syd, which is that it's not too smart when you say you've destroyed the man perceived as America's biggest threat, and then destroy all evidence of said man. It's clumsy. Whether he did that his first week in office, last week in office, or somewhere between, it's a dumb move.
Apparently they haven't destroyed all evidence: there is photographic, video, and DNA evidence. We'll see how it all settles out. And let's face it, if they did still have the body the detractors would be saying it wasn't really OBL, and if there was video of him being shot they'd say it was faked, and if they'd kept a finger they'd say it was faked, ad nauseum. This is from an Andrew Breitbart site:
Quote: ...Display the body. The free world, particularly the United States, has a right to make sure Osama bin Laden is really dead. Every American has a right to walk right up to bin Laden’s corpse and view it. We are entitled to know for a fact that the witch is dead. No shroud for dignity’s sake, please – bin Laden’s naked, bullet-riddled corpse should be put on display in lower Manhattan for all the world to see. The entire body should be digitally scanned, inside and out – and made available for everyone to take his or her own picture...
http://bigpeace.com/jmwaller/2011/05/02/display-bin-ladens-body-at-ground-zero-then-destroy-the-al-qaeda-legacy/
Does anyone really believe that that would satisfy them? If the administration did that, these same people would be screaming from the rooftops that they should've buried him right away to avoid pissing off crazy Muslims. Nothing is going to make everyone happy, and nothing is going to convince people who don't want to be convinced.
In the meantime, OBL's corpse was treated with respect in the Muslim tradition, defusing that canard with the over-sensitive so-called Islamic "moderates", and there's no grave to serve as a shrine. Pretty smart in my book. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:51 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| Where are you folks getting your information? There is video and photographic evidence of Osama's death and the White House is discussing ways of releasing them in a non-exploitive manner. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:13 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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Thanks, Marc. Didn't know that. Makes a difference.
For the record, my hard-core Republican mom is very happy with Obama right now. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:57 am |
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Listening to NPR yesterday and there was a phone in show about the killing of OBL. Almost every caller thought it phony and wanted some proof that it was Bin Laden. Of course they were sure that they dumped him in the sea so he couldn't be identified. The host was getting frustrated with all conspiracy theorists.
I was surprised, because I always thought that NPR listeners were mostly liberal and these callers sounded like Fox's audience. To top it all off a guy phoned in who said that Osama Bin Laden was the greatest Muslim ever. He was a Muslim (Mid Easterner Arab from the sound of his accent), and living in Ohio ( I think). The moderator was aghast. The caller claimed that he was the greatest Muslim because he was protecting Islam from all their enemies and stuff like that. The moderator asked how he could be considered a great Muslim when he massacred thousands of innocent men women and children. The caller said something like it had to be done because Islam was being attacked and that Islam's enemies had killed many more.
I wouldn't be surprised if Homeland Security checked this guy out. Not a very bright terrorist supporter.
There does seem to be an inordinate amount of conspiracy theory desease in the states. Some conspiracy theories are worth examining but most are just nuts. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:43 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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marantzo wrote: a guy phoned in who said that Osama Bin Laden was the greatest Muslim ever.
WTF?
That's crazy.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Everyone knows that Muhammad Ali is the greatest.
Actually it's probably blasphemy as well, since the Prophet would come first and then all his relatives down the ages and then probably some Pakistani fast bowler and that's not even considering where to place Kareem Abdul Jabbar who still holds the record for most NBA points and ... |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:39 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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Location: Black Hills
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It's an interesting question as to whether the intel that got Osama was derived from torture. Panetta, interviewed by Bryan Williams, said it was an open question, that there had been multiple sources used in finding the courier, some of them detainees who got the "enhanced interrogation techniques" and some of them field contacts who got their palms greased. So looks like it's going to be debated for a while, which intel was key, and if any intel gained from torture could have been obtained by other means.
I hope that torture (in all its euphemized forms) is removed from our toolkit, because it violates what we stand for, as a nation. So long as we condone it, in any form, what moral basis do we have to consider ourselves better than our foes, or in any way defenders of civilized values? |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:56 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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I agree that torture, or waterboarding or any of that euphemistic jargon, is against the principles this country should stand for, as well as being generally undependable because people will tell you anything you want to hear, not necessarily the truth.
I saw a movie on TCM a year or two ago, the title of which escapes me at the moment, but it starred James Garner as a WWII POW who is being interrogated about the time and place of D-Day. But like many soldiers who were in areas where they might be captured, he'd been given misleading information that he believed to be the truth, so although he resisted, what he told them was wrong anyway. Don't our enemies do that too? Some of them are surely smart enough. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 2:41 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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Quote from this week's Time Out New York review of The Beaver:
"Go ahead, try to stifle those uncomfortable giggles and that feeling of utter are-you-kidding disbelief."
The emphasis is mine.
It goes on:
"What you'll get in return is one of the songle most bizarre, and bizarrely moving, meta-tales of bouncing back from rock bottom ever....a ballsy, unironic and admirably naked leap into the void. The Film of the Week." |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:59 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| I've been saying ever since it premiered in Austin, people are going to be surprised by how good The Beaver is. I haven't seen it, but the buzz at the SXSW fest from people who had seen it was very very good. It will probably result in Gibson's career getting a third life. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:15 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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Salon raves over his performance. The movie's trailer made it look unbelievably stupid, but that's just the trailer. It will be interesting to see how the movie plays.
For all his bad press, I don't have the impression that Gibson has ever become anything like box office poison. Passion of the Christ was a hit. Not sure about Apocalypto. His starring role flops weren't due to public antagonism, they just don't seem to be movies people wanted to see (Wild, Wild West).
Mostly it's people like me who dislike Gibson, and I don't represent a majority. And even I will watch him in a good movie/performance (just re-rented the first two Mad Max movies, for instance) |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:25 pm |
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| Mad Max. Apply named. I saw part of one of the first of the series and didn't like what I saw, but it wasn't because of Gibson. I saw two Lethal Weapons, (I think), I know I saw at least one. OK movies and Mel played a crazy man. He did it well, Unfortunately he carried it into real life. Or maybe it was the other way around. |
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| daffy |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:26 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Wall Street
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Count me as very surprised. I'll check it out when it comes onto cable.
And they should fire the guy who made the trailer. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:33 pm |
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I won't be seeing The Beaver (I think) because I find Gibson annoying but more because Jodie Foster really annoys me no end. I didn't even like her in Taxi Driver.  |
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